You left out “evil old guy.” You act as if he were some harmless olfd man being attacked by hooligans. Strom Thurmond did his best to harm me and mine, so fuck you and your high horse.
Learn some history, you clueless git.
I honestly don’t understand “respect for the dead.” They’re dead. They don’t care. About anything. Ever again. Why is it acceptable for me to call Strom Thurmond a fucking sack of shit when he’s a living human being who might, conceivably, hear and be hurt by my remarks, but completely beyond the pall for me to call him a fucking sack of shit when he’s dead and can’t possibly, ever, hear and be hurt by my words?
And don’t give me any bullshit about his family. Strom’s been in politics for 500,000 years. His family is no doubt used to hearing Strom’s name tarred. Besides, I think they have bigger concerns right now.
Miller, I may be wrong about this, but my hunch is that respect for the dead stems, at least partially, from the desire of the living for people to withold their hatred of them after they die, at least until the body’s cold. Also, the dead have gone into that undiscovered country, and that in itself is reason for pause.
Did that make any sense at all? <slinks away>
They’re watching Star Trek VI?
I agree 100%. Well said.
Aren’t we losing some perspective here? Thurmond had some terrible positions with horrible effects, but he wasn’t a terrorist or dictator. Come on, people!
I can’t speak for other people, but I have no problem with you saying “he’s a sack of shit”, or “I disagree with what he symbolized and stood for.” I’m right there with ya. I have a problem with some people who give a “Yipee” and rhetorically dance on his grave. Respect for the dead doesn’t mean silencing your disagreement, it means respecting the dignity that is afforded to all human beings.
In case you missed an earlier post of mine, I’ll say it again. IMO, the Civil Rights and Gay Rights movements are based on the idea that all people, regardless of any other consideration, contain within them an essential human dignity that requires the respect of others.
Let me put it this way: would MLK or Gandhi say “good riddance to bad rubbish”? No! They would express respect for him as a human being and disdain for the causes he represented.
Perish the thought. Not even ol’ Strom deserves that.
I didn’t respect his dignity when he was alive, why should I start now?
I disagree. I think the ideal behind Civil Rights is judging people by the content of their hearts, not the color of their skins. You shouldn’t hate people for what they are, but I don’t have a problem with hating 'em for who they are. People may be born with a certain right to dignity, but it errodes if not kept up. After a century of active, legislative bigotry, there’s not much left of Strom’s
Damn! Want to set the bar a little higher there? Why not add in Abe Lincoln and the Christ Child while you’re at it?
I don’t think anyone needs to show respect for Strom, exactly. But I just think it’s crude to cheer someone’s death, unless it’s some evil being like Hitler.
Maybe it’s because my dad’s a funeral director, I don’t know.
How many of the folks here complaining about the jubilant tone of those of us who’re glad that Strom’s finally gone to meet his maker will be saying the same kinds of things if Osama gets whacked? You know there’s going to be tons of threads celebrating that (if it ever happens), and I’ll wager that 99% of us Dopers are going to be screaming, “Hellfuckin’ Yeah! About goddamn time!”
In the meantime, I’ll stop being glad about Strom’s death when he stops being dead, or my friends who’ve died from AIDS stop being dead.
Well, obviously there’s some disagreement about what it means to be a decent human being. Priam, ShoNuff, dalovindj, I, and others feel that it’s lousy to rejoice over somebody’s death, other people disagree, that’s just the way it goes sometimes.
Only my abiding respect and affection for Guinn prevents me from making a truly hideous joke. I must go now, I seem to have an internal hemmorage.
I think you’re missing the point gobear. Many people such as myself are not gay. Many People such as myself do not share all of your beleifs.
These people accept you though they do not agree with you. They accord you the basic human respect you deserve simply because you are a human being.
Strom Thurmond was a human being.
Because of this basic fact I find the idea of your taking joy in his passing every bit as evil and repugnant as a man taking joy in the death of a gay man from HIV because he’s gay.
The operative word is “because.”
There is no “because Strom Thurmon is a bad man.”
There is no “because HIV rids the world of faggots.”
They are both bullshit. They are both rationalizations. They both speak poorly only of the person uttering them.
These are the lessons of the civil rights movement. These are the lessons that you and esprix and others so eloquently pass on to us by sharing your experiences on this board of what it means to be gay in America today.
If they are true, and I believe they are, then they apply backwards as well as forwards.
Or, are you saying that it really is bullshit, just that when it applies to you it happens to be your bullshit?
The fact is that it doesn’t mean anything unless you apply it even when you don’t want to.
What is it that I’m missing, do you think?
Okay, now my curiosity has been tweeked-have at it!
I think you misread my sentiment ShoNuff. I never meant to imply (and in fact, I don’t think I did) that Thurmond was like bin Laden or Hussein. The biggest reason given in this thread by people who frown on the celebration is that one should have “respect for the dead”. Some have even said they lose respect for the revelers. My only point was that I would be surprised to see any of those posters celebrating the death of bL or SH (should those become reality) after using that logic. Personally, I don’t care that Thurmond died, and I don’t care so much that I’m not even interested in judging people who are thrilled with it.
Personally, I don’t see people celebrating the death of Bin Laden or Saddam-or rather, it would be more of, “we’ve found the SOB, thank god it’s over!”
But honestly, if anyone thinks that Strom Thurmond, vile as he was, was anywhere near as bad as those two, then that person needs some serious perspective adjustment.
BTW, I also think that a false celebrating the “good things” about him is stupid, too. The man was a grade A asshat and quite frankly, the thing I find sad about it is that this is his legacy-that he was a vile, nasty, jackass, and that people celebrate his death.
Food for thought.
[quote]
What is it that I’m missing, do you think?
[.quote]
That you’ve created a weak moral equivalency. A person dying of HIV has not hurt anyone except himself. Strom Thurmond did his best to keep me and people like me second-class citizens by supporting legal discrimination.
No, the lessons of thecivil rights movement is that one segemtn of the population may not deny the rights accorded to all citizens to a despised minority. How have I or any gay person denied Strom his civil rights?
I don’t understand what you mean here, and I suspect you don’t either. I don’t mourn the deaths of evil men.
Shall the prisoner weep for the jailer?
You don’t have to mourn him. You can say, I’m not sad that he’s dead, I don’t miss him, good riddance.
However, it’s different to say, “Yippe, he’s dead-yay! I’m so happy.”
Indifference and happiness are different.
I look forward to Scylla and friends conducting the obsequies for Leni Riefenstahl and Fred Phelps when the time comes.
but I’m happy he’s dead, not indifferent. Stop acting like the man was a hero of the Republic; he was an evil, homophobic, segregationist SOB, and he had a much richer, happier, and longer life than a just God would have allowed.
Did I SAY he was a hero? No.
However, I just think it’s tasteless to celebrate someone’s death.