Your linked post notwithstanding (yes, I read it), I think your conclusion is false. European nations have partaken in many wars, invasions, and other acts of violence. People have been tortured and killed by European governments. A minority of Americans support the war in Iraq and a tiny minority support torture.
Are you saying that all these Somali pirates are working together as one organization? I have trouble believing that. It would effectively make them the de facto Somali government.
So far, the pirates have made a point of not killing any hostages. I guess that might change, but I have no way of being sure. Still, I’d hate to be one of the other hostages when word got out that the brother of the guy holding me just got whacked.
I might add that I’m not in favor of pandering to pirates. The only way they will stop is when the risk/reward ratio is skewed out of their comfort zone. So far, they have the equivalent of a broken slot machine that keeps paying out, and the casino manager standing by smiling at them.
Somalia once had some sort of goverment, I’ve seen pictures of Mogadishu taken before the country went to hell. Does Somalia want a stable government again? I don’t know. Something tells me that “shipping companies”* paying a few tens of millions of dollars a year isn’t going to lead to a stable Somalia, but that appears to be the view many are taking. Just keep paying the pirates their toll and next thing you know, they’ll go away.
How were pirates dealt with in the past? Ruthlessly hunted and executed, or paid to keep on doing their thing? At least we can say history isn’t repeating itself.
European nations in other times may have done whatever but today they do not support violence anything like Americans do. Nations, like people, change. If ten years ago anyone had told me America would be torturing and invading Iraq I would have told them they were crazy. America has changed drastically.
After invading Iraq, torturing, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, wiretaps, etc. Bush was reelected by the American people. There is just no way of getting around that. The American people not only condoned but confirmed and supported all these acts.
The fact that some individuals oppose them does not change the fact that the American people, as a people, as a whole, supported and endorsed what Bush did and voted for more of the same.
I think I read that Somalia is controlled by a group of warlords, who are indeed the de facto government. The warlords work in conjunction with the various pirate groups. Still, if you wipe out one band of pirates, how is the next band supposed to know that they won’t be the next band targeted? Thick as thieves, perhaps? The entire enterprise hinges on nobody taking any action against the pirates, something the pirates have profited from considerably so far.
The ruthless hunting and executing wasn’t what worked. What worked was civilising their ports of refuge.
Lawless areas near shipping lanes = piracy
The rewards of piracy are high and they will take the risk on being hunted at sea and executed. What shuts them down, and the only thing that shuts them down, is having nowhere to go on land.
If cameras or other equipment on a ship could detect a small boat that had come along side, wouldn’t a hard rudder right or left cause quite a thrill for the small boat being used by the pirates?
No. A hard helm order on a ship at full sea speed (and in piracy areas they are never doing any less) results in a turn of a radius measured in miles.
This is just insane, on so many levels. Are you Der Trihs sock or something? You sound like it.
Bush was reelected before a lot of this information you cite came out, FWIW, re: torture, and furthermore, electing a President doesn’t make you necessarily complicit in what the elected official does.
You do realize that a country like the USA has many, many levels of Bureaucracy and not all are intertwined? That includes the military and secret services.
Obama was elected on a hope platform, but that hope and change promise is eroding every day. Do I think it’s Obama’s fault? Noooo, its a complex issue that eludes many people’s ability to understand, including mine.
Your America hatred is duly noted. Go live somewhere else if you don’t like it, or, portray your home country in a way that is favorably comparable to the USA.
Jeez man, every thread, it’s “America kills people and doesn’t care”, etcetera. Get over it already because it isn’t true.
I can only hope the Seals and FBI have some sort of co-ordinated secret mission planned. I can understand Obama not talking about it…as they said on Fox, Somalia doesn’t have a government, and the White House doesn’t want it to appear as if a bunch of thug pirates could get the attention of the president. I can see their point. But dammit, I hope the captain gets rescued safely and the pirates get eaten by sharks. From the toes up.
That doesn’t alter the fact that the pirates were hunted and executed. It may not have been the ultimate reason for that age of piracy to come to an end, but knowing that living the pirate life was likely going to be a dead end job might have possibly been some deterrent to some prospective pirates. I know if I were a pirate, and knew that I could make a few million dollars for a couple of weeks work, and nobody would come looking for me after the fact, I’d be on it like a Somali on the Gulf of Aden.
On a serious note, what do you think it would take to get the Somali warlords to quit their multimillion dollar a year birdnest on the ground enterprise and go full on civilized legit? Going from being the most prosperous business in the country to just another tax paying stiff is going to be a hard pill to swallow. My bet is that they’ll likely resist.
There was more than enough for decent people to have rejected him in the 2004 election. Starting the war, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, there was more than enough and decent Americans knew it and said it. And for that they were called traitirs and worse. Even in 2008 the Republicans were not rejected in the measure they should have been. Even today America does not support doing justice by trying those who committed the crimes.
Oh, the old “why do you hate America?”. We hadn’t heard it for a while now. Isn’t that theme getting kind of old? So you either approve of Bush’s crimes or you hate America? Right?
Um, that’s exactly what I did. I left the US and returned to Europe. But who says you have to agree with the government to live somewhere? Again, the old love it or leave it. Sorry but no. I feel entitled to criticize the government as much as I like.
Where do you want me to start? Rule of law? Socialized health care? Social services? there are plenty of areas where Europe is better off than the USA. And not being so much in favor of violence is one of them. Take the death penalty. America stands with countries like Russia and China in its proclivity to use violence.
Tell that to the Iraqi people.
I knew it took forever to stop such a ship, but thought that perhaps the trough or wave created by such a manuver would seriously screw up the operation of a small boat along the side.
Iraq? Hmm, I think we have gone quite a few miles from the OP.
That is something that really surprised me on my first trip aboard a ship, those things maneuver with the grace of a hippopotamus on stilettos.
Isn’t the Alabama over 500 feet long? It’s amazing that these behemoths even navigate the seas, let alone the pirate issue!
I still cannot get over the strangeness of this scenario:
A gigantic American-flagged container ship is boarded by pirates off the coast of Somalia, out far enough to sea to be considered reasonably far enough from pirates.
The crew of the ship manages to wrest control of the ship from the pirates.
A prisoner exchange between interested parties is reneged upon involving the captain of the ship and a captured pirate (I’d really like to know how that happened!).
The captain is relegated to being a captive on a lifeboat that the pirates put out to sea, meanwhile the Alabama is setting sail for it’s original destination sans captain, which is to deliver humanitarian aid to a city in Kenya (the irony burns).
American warships have seized control of the area, and are apparently negotiating with the lifeboat, which has limited resources for food/water and a radio with a battery that’s dying every time it’s used.
The warships, as impressive as they may be, can’t really do shit right now.
And now it’s a stalemate between awesome naval power and a dinghy.
Amazing.
And we don’t care. Pffffffffttttt.
Regarding resources, I read that the lifeboat normally carries enough supplies to handle 34 people for 10 days. Since there are only 5 people in the lifeboat (4 pirates and 1 hostage), it seems that they can hold out for quite a long time.
Ah. Upon reading and rereading these articles, I cam across the “10 day ration” thing and didn’t think about the crew size.
Because he speaks the truth many Americans such as yourself don’t like to hear?
You only need to read a page or two of the responses in the “Room For Debate” feature on this issue in the NYT (America’s leading “liberal newspaper”) to see that he is exactly right. Respondents are overwhelmingly in favor of some sort of knee-jerk bellicose response (fireworks as it were) then any sort of measured and/or long-term remedial response to the problem.
Capture Pirates, on Land and Sea
And before you use your custumary “love or it or leave” response – and any number of variants thereof, I, like sailor, have also made my choice. Left that is. But even beyond his own very legitimate reasons to pipe-in, I have emotional ones as well. Such as an American born and bred son in college, whom I hope I’ve taught well enough not to become as rabid in his jingoism/militarism as many of you seem to be. And even beyond that, I still look at the States as my second home…if not my first, due to the humongous amount of influence it has had in making me who I am today.
Capture Pirates, on Land and Sea
Bombs away or would little grey cells be a better option?
I didn’t bother to read any of your cites, but you and Sailors blanket generalizing of what you in your warped perceptions to apply to all of America, including myself, is insulting to say the least.
I am not defending anyone or anything, or really any administration of the US government.
I think you and other expats need to get off your freaking high horse before you go throwing condemnation around on an entire nation because you’re convinced you know right from wrong, without knowing the nuances of a situation.
Fuck it, I don’t know why I bother. As an American, I am in an indefensible position no matter what I say.
The thing is that I think most people respond to this matter out of complete ignorance. They know nothing about the problem and believe that what worked before must work now (armed, swift, bloody response against pirates). The world has changed, so has piracy. Most people think it through when they are given some facts and information, then there’s the idiots, but those we can’t do anything about.
It is a little unnerving to read so many people here suggesting that the best thing is to go in, guns ablaze, and kick some ass. I believe (and hope to be right) that it is just out of ignorance. I am sure I have made my share of stupid suggestions on things I know nothing about.
Do you want to hear my ideas on how to fix the US economy? 
Read sailor’s previous post about criticism of American versus criticism of individuals and you’ll see that you shouldn’t take everything as personal insults and lies. American as a whole has an aggregate personality of the majority of citizens and behaves as 1 entity when acting internationally through government.