There is only one effective approach to piracy: kill the pirates

Great Debates
1

The approach to the Somali pirates should be very simple:

Let shipping companies decide what mechanism to use, and how much they want to spend on defending their ships.

Let countries decide what mechanism to use, and how much they want to spend on defending their ships.

For ships flying a US flag, I suggest the only effective option is to kill, without public comment or debate, all who are known to be involved in those pirate operations. Should any pirates choose to surrender peacefully, they should be brought to justice as kidnappers here in the US.

It is easy, of course, to sit behind a desk and suggest policy but it should be obvious by now that there is no upper limit to the extortion that will continue to occur; indeed continuing the present policy of paying off piracy will simply result in the exacerbation of the problem, improved sophistication of the pirates and expansion of their resources.

Those countries preferring to negotiate and settle up peacefully are free to do so. I suspect the pirates will, like all impulsive, simple-minded and practical muggers, leave alone those who refuse to negotiate settlements and instead pick on those happy to hand over their wallets.

This is not about Somalia or its problems. While the incompetence running amok in that country certainly provides a breeding ground for lawlesss behaviour, there is a more practical problem that needs to be solved first: piracy. When it doesn’t pay, it will be solved. As long as it pays, it will worsen. Turn it into a war and you’ll be about as effective as Mr Bush was in his fantastically stupid “War on Terrorism.”

The solution is to kill them as individuals and not go to “war” against countries. Even those with IQs on a par with a head of cabbage will be able to figure out that it’s not worth it to be caught a hundred miles offshore with foreign hostages if the protectors of those hostages demand your life for the lives of the hostages.

Pirates aren’t terrorists with a nobler goal of saving Somalia or converting the world to Islam or rectifying injustices. They are…pirates. They are muggers. They should be killed or imprisoned without fanfare any time they attack a US-flagged ship. No negotiations. Not a word. In the long run this will result in the fewest deaths, even if in the short term some hostages die. It’s not an easy equation but there is no viable alternative.

2

Well, if taken alive a trail is required. Piracy is traditionally a capital offense. Further, American law applies if a pirate takes action against an American ship.

3

Actually, I expect someone who decided to “refuse to negotiate settlements” with a mugger would end up bashed on the head or shot and robbed anyway.

It’ll no doubt reduce the number of deaths on US flagged merchant ships, because there won’t be many. Why sail under a flag that stands for “You Are Expendable” ? Why hoist such a flag over your very expensive ship when it just means the US Navy ( in your world ) would charge in, refuse to negotiate and quite possibly either get the ship sunk by the pirates or do it themselves ?

No; we should use whatever strategy seems appropriate to the situation at the time, that produces the least harm to our own interests and to innocent bystanders. Not follow a single simplistic strategy regardless of circumstances or consequences.

4

Hold on, which is it? Kill or take prisoners? Your premise is that cold, instant killing is the only option and then you go on to talk about taking prisoners and charging them. Why?

5

Because it also stands for “You Cannot Profit By Attacking This Ship”? What pirate is going to be stupid enough to attack a U.S. ship if they cannot get anything out of it, and are going to be shot or imprisoned for their trouble?

6

Won’t someone think of the pirate’s children?

7

I’m waiting for the inevitable “Pirates vs. Ninjas!” GD thread.

8

They can profit, they just can not do so through ransom. They can still steal what they want on the ship kill the crew and go on their merry way. As you’ve established no profit can come of crew members, there is now little reason to leave them alive.

9

My premise is that a policy of non-negotiation produces the safest waters and the quickest end to piracy.

I am not in favor of slaughtering an individual who immediately surrenders upon being apprehended, but I am not averse to killing them on the spot should they fail to do so. For those who do surrender, there must be immediate and reasonably long-term removal from the public sphere–i.e. imprisonment for a long period of time (and yes; regardless of age).

Der Trihs suggests that muggees who refuse to negotiate are likely to be harmed. This is true. It is not the muggees who should refuse to negotiate–it is their guardians–in this case, the countries under whose flag they are flying. Were I a hostage, I’d be negotiating my ass off to save my sorry hide. That’s kind of the whole point–there are times when the larger interest of the next thousand potential hostages has to be placed above my personal skin.

He also suggests (I think) that it would be hard to raise a crew if the crew were aware the ship owner/guardian had a “no-negotiation” policy. I do not agree with this. It’s my contention that ships whose owners/countries had established policies of non-negotiation and lethal reprisal/unconditional surrender would be left alone for softer targets. I would sooner crew a ship from a non-negotiating country than one that has a habit of paying ransom and hoping the hijackers treat me well. These are not terrorists pursuing a Noble Cause. These are bozo muggers pursuing the Easiest Dollar.

10

Thanks for clearing that up.

Incidentally, I really wish people would stop inventing positions of their opponents. No one has ever suggested or even vaguely entertained the idea that pirates are anything more than thugs and criminals, let alone noble.

11

How are they going to do that? Do you propose that they’re going to go raiding cargo vessels in order to steal wallets and personal belongings, or have you forgotten that the pirates don’t have the means to offload any significant amount of freight at sea and can’t outrun military vessels in the hijacked ship?

12

Preposterous :rolleyes:

13

Right. Most of the cargos of the ships that the pirates take are bulky and not easily disposable. The whole business model of Somali piracy is based on ransoming the ships and crews.

14

Ninjas of course, Ninjas are higher level on the hierarchy of rogues. Anyone can be a pirate. Ninjas have like 100 times as many SP as a Pirate. Any Ninja can be a pirate, but not many pirates can be Ninjas.

15

Ironically Chief Pedant never said anyone suggested that. While we’re on the topic of putting words in people’s mouths.

16

They do currently raid cargo vessels and steal cargo. They board the ships crack open a few cargo containers and if they find something good make off with it. It doesn’t need to be a significant amount of stuff if they find something valuable they take it. Taking valuable personal belongings is not out of the question.

17

What gets me about desk thumping armchair strategists is how they seem to think no one has ever thought of these things before. I don’t know how they imagine their advice being received

“These ‘guns’ you talk about, you say they can fire lethal projectiles for defence? Tell me more!”

“Why you’re right, we do have a navy! Why didn’t I think of that? let’s send them down there right away! Man, I am useless without my morning coffee.”

I guarantee you the dozens of governments and shipping companies have had people much more knowledgable than you or me game these scenarios out.

As far as “well some hostages will have to die, but that’s the price we pay etc.” I don’t see anyone here volunteering to be one of those hostages.

18

You’d be surprised, you really would. A lot of stuff that we think people in charge have thought out or analyzed they really haven’t.

I mean yes people have thought of using guns on pirates obviously, they just did it yesterday, but having a strategy to go after their networks isn’t something people are really thinking of. Responding to 4G War scenarios is something the political inertia of the military is very resistant to. It’s hard to even find a good discussion of 4G War on the net.

Obviously the 19th century solution of simply bombarding the town, invading and hanging 300 people isn’t going to work in the modern day. That doesn’t mean you can’t have teams go in and kill the right people.

19

Take a look at the list of ships attacked. With the exception of the three yachts captured and the cruise ships which all escaped or drove off their attackers, there’s no cargo being carried that was both small and valuable enough to steal.

20

Right. The piracy is due to the ransom value of the crew, ship and cargo. Outright theft of cargo would require significantly more infrastructure, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

So it really is about ransom. I agree with the direction of the opening post, although I would not phrase it as “kill the pirates”. I think the key is to not pay ransoms. After that, do whatever is prudent to try get the hostages back alive and bring the pirates to justice. If this involves killing the pirates to free the hostages so be it, but it could also involve delaying tactics meant to wear the pirates out, etc. Whatever the experts on the scene decide has the best chance of freeing the hostages should be done (excluding paying the ransom).

Does taking paying ransoms off the table increase the risk to hostages? Probably, in the short term. But if piracy is never profitable, and often fatal, it should decrease enormously, and I think overall we’ll have safer seas.