“Neo-Con”? Is that what I am now? I’ll remember that the next time I go into the voting station and ask for the “Democrat” ballot in the primaries.
It might also occur to one, if one were to put away their bottle of Jack Daniels for a moment, that there are people out there who might think that, if one is willing to commit suicide for one’s political cause, that that cause is ipso facto a just one.
Schmuck.
I don’t have to, as I was not making a moral judgement. You said: "*A military pilot, OTOH is a) attaxking troops in the field, not civilians, and b) is operating as part of a military campaign to stop terror, not to foment it. *
I provided examples of military pilots deliberately attacking civilian targets, either to stop terror (the Allies), or to spread it (the Nazis). Of course, this is from the winner’s perspective, for 't is the winner who writes history, n’est-ce pas? Therefore: it’s all about perspective.
No argument there. I wasn’t trying to justify it either.
You’re reading too much into it. I was merely pointing out the errors in your statement about military pilots. Of course there’s a moral difference between attacking military targets and civilian targets: that’s the whole fucking point.
Does not compute. Just because I’m able to look at the Middle East situation with a certain amount of distance and impartiality automatically makes me wrong?
Wow, that was one big can of worms I opened. In any case, to an outsider, ‘homicide bomber’ sounds exactly like a word manufactured for ideological purposes.
It’s as if whoever invented it thinks we’re all morons who can’t understand the proper gravity of matters without such redundant and loaded words. In other words, classic PC. 
Well, don’t I feel just a little stupid. I’m not exactly a big news hound so my light reading of the stories from the internet left this piece out. :smack: (Eventually that smiley will look right won’t it? Go smack!)
Of course, the fact that there were soldiers on the bus could be happenstance, just as our bombs occasionally kill civilians, their bombs occasionally kill soldiers. There were civilians on the bus, so this was not necessarily a military target.
No problem, Cheesesteak.
But just to be clear: military targets are not a novelty for Palestinian suicide bombers. This particular one didn’t look like an accident either.
Collounsbury, you have the cutest way of saying, “December, I cannot refute your point. You are right.”
Thanks for admitting it. I always appreciate a compliment, even in code.
Clues for sale! Get yer clues here!
Yes, but your point makes no sense because it is context-free. Allied pilots didn’t attack Dresden for nor reason. The Allies were in the last stages of fighting a ruthless, implacable enemy in the most horrific conflict the world has yet seen. There may have been a military purpose for the bombing of Dresden, but I’m not going to defend it Certainly, killing innocents was the Germans’ trademark, not the Allies’.
In any event, we’re talking about 2002, not 1945.
No, but making halfassed apologias for suicide bombings (I’m not accusing you of this, mind) to be “open-minded.”
The Palestinians may need to have their own country, they may feel oppressed by Israel, but that is no excuse for suicde bombing, and no possible reason to mitigate the enormity of the act.
Oh really, I want to see that quote! I want to see the fucking quote where I praised Suicide Bombings. You malicious and self-righteous Jackass.
**
Shall we now add bald-faced liar to along side of idiot? You just cut & paste a section of my post, which I approved of something, then claimed that it was Suicide Bombings. In case you don’t know, this is lying. You knew very well that that quote wasn’t for Suicide Bombers, it was for Palestinians and to be specific, rock throwers. This is so clear from my post that even an idiot would have known, so I must conclude that you meant to misinform the SDMB. Did you think I wouldn’t call you on this? Did you think you could get away with it?
If you did in fact just made a mistake and it was not malevolent, then you are just a complete imbecile and not a liar. Which is it?
**
I am so fucking glad you agree. Now stop being a lying asshole by deliberately misrepresenting someone’s views.
Chances are most Palestinians, whether they support suicide bombings or not, think of Israel as a ruthless enemy as well. Suicide bombings are horrific acts of cowardice in my book as well as yours, but assuming they happen for no reason is sticking your head in the sand.
True, tangentially related as the eras may be. As said: the examples served to point out a fallacy in your remarks - not to villify Allied bombings, or excuse Palestinian suicide bombings.
If you’re not accusing me of it, why bring it up?
I’m not OK’ing suicide bombings here. I’m pointing out how targeting civilians isn’t an exclusive right to those the West calls the Bad Guys. If 1945 is too long ago for you, how’s 1986? Tripoli, anyone?
I could not agree with you more.
Well, I see on re-reading that you were responding to Milroyj, not me, so I’ll accept that you were praising kids throwing rocks. I was misled by reading a post respnding to yours that was talking about suicide bombings.
How about this?
Merely adding that “stupid” at the end does not cancel your refusal to condemn suicide bombing. Plus now you admit comparing kids being put in harm’s way to samurai. Whatever.
Verry good, you are getting into the spirit of the Pit. Excellent use of verbal abuse! I give you 9.5 out of 10.
Coldfire, nobody is saying that suicide bombings happen for no reason. Palestinians are suicide bombers because they hate Israelis and want to kill as many as possible. They aren’t doing it to free their country or to make a statement. Suicide bombers want to die for Allah and take as many Jews with them as possible.
My quarrel with Efrem is that he only halfway disapproves of it as a tactic, and he excuses it by pointing to the Palestinians’ oppression.
We weren’t going after civilians. We were bombing Khadaffi’s living quarters. He hardly qualifies as a civilian or an innocent.
Well, that’s the Israeli’s for you. Think of them as the friendly repo men. With slightly larger guns, of course.
If you’re implying that you’d rather see Israel retaliate by killing Palestinian civilians, then I disagree. 
If you’re implying that you’d rather see Israel not retaliate at all, then I disagree.
If you’re implying that Israel deserves to be criticized no matter what they do, then I disagree.
Have you stated a correct definition for Immolate yet? Let me do it for you: 1. “To kill as a sacrifice”.
In case you don’t know, I’ll define sacrifice too: 1. a) “The act of offering to a God”.
Now that you are fully educated on these words of the English language, please inform me what the fuck is it about this phase you have a problem with?
**
a) Suicide Bombers are (among many things) angry, hopeless, proud, and stupid.
b) I am questioning if you even have had read the thread at all. Because if you had bothered too, you would have found a few of my quotes, such as: *
I suggest you read the posts of others before you make ignorant responses to them.
The easy ignorance to dispel first:
You said about Palestinians:
“It is a code for them kind of like in Japan with their culture of warriors.”
The warrior class in feudal Japan were called “samurai.”
As for the rest of your post:
I already addressed the defintion of “immolation,” including Islam’s rejection of the notion of human sacrifice. You are the one not paying attention.
I’m not the only one who you angered in that thread, so either you’re the clever one and everyone else isn’t, or…
I’m not going to play Clintonian parsing games with you over “evil” versus “morally reprehensible.”
If you say you are against suicide bombing, I’ll accept that.
Just for future reference, gobear m’man, expressions like that don’t do a whole lot for your arguments.
Oh, and the samurai weren’t particularly nice people. Just because a group has a code of honor or behavior doesn’t mean it’s one that would be in any way acceptable to you or me. IOW, even if he were comparing Palestinian terrorists to samurai (which he isn’t, merely suggesting that the Palestinians have a code of honor of their own), it wouldn’t necessarily mean he was saying that the Palestianian terrorists are good guys. Did that make sense?
Carry on.
would you rather I had said “Bush parsing games”? I am not going to get bogged down in arguing over semantic minutiae. I fail to see how my argument is harmed.
Care to back that up? I’ll agree that bushido doesn’t necessarily jibe well with Christian notions of virtue, but I, personally, find much to admire in the samurai martial spirit and sense of duty. The 47 Ronin, in particular, is a great story of fealty and devotion.
If that is what he means, then he should say so explicitly. rather than rely on charitable glosses of his words from other posters.
would you rather I had said “Bush parsing games”? I am not going to get bogged down in arguing over semantic minutiae. I fail to see how my argument is harmed.
Care to back that up? I’ll agree that bushido doesn’t necessarily jibe well with Christian notions of virtue, but I, personally, find much to admire in the samurai martial spirit and sense of duty. The 47 Ronin, in particular, is a great story of fealty and devotion.
He wrote, "“It is a code for them kind of like in Japan with their culture of warriors.” That is, Palestinian bombers have a code of honor, just as the samurai had a code of honor. I swear I am going to slap the next person who tries to tell me how to read a fucking sentence!
If that is what he means, then he should say so explicitly. rather than rely on charitable glosses of his words from other posters.
I never said your argumemt was harmed. I just find the use of “Clintonian” to be an unwarranted and bizarrely incongruous dig at the ex-President.
I agree that there is much to admire in bushido. I agree that a direct comparison between Palestinian terrorists and samurai is a false one.
I don’t think there was such a comparison made. You do.
Saying that two groups have a code of honor in no way suggests that it is the same code of honor. That’s my opinion. You obviously disagree.
I think that’s all efrem was trying to say. You do not. You want to slap me for it, fine. Whatever helps you get through the day.
:shrug: I don’t know if I hit a nerve, or if that wasn’t the right time to post, or if I just didn’t express myself well. I guess for whatever reason it looked like I was jumping your shit. That wasn’t my intention at all, and if that’s the reason you jumped mine, I apologize.
Thanks kabbes and in a later post December. I did think it was the same word with a different spelling, rather than two different words.
Wait a minute…are dictionary definitions and learning something allowed in the Pit? 