[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
I wouldn’t even know who this person is, except for some interview where she was explaining the reason for going by the middle name, and part of it was “I go by it as its a difficult name, it challenges people and I like that” or some such totally obnoxious pompous tripe. And fair enough, you want to go by your middle name, your choice- but why the S.? Was there really another Epatha Merkerson in the SAG? Epatha Merkerson, I wouldn’t think twice about it- the S. at the front equates to “look at me, I’m special”.
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Well, she’s not one us “normal” folks, toiling away anonymously on the Internet. She’s an actress. People pay her money to get up on stage or in front of a camera & pretend she’s somebody else.
My father and I share the same first name, so they called me Jason (not my father’s middle name) to avoid confusion.
My social security card has R. Jason on it as have several of my car registrations. I’ve never been able to get the DMV to put it on my drivers license though.
Three of the four people that work in my office also use first initial and middle name.
I tend to notice when other people are using the First Initial, Middle Name format.
It seems to be a predominately male thing although S. Epatha Merkerson plays Anita VanBuren on Law & Order.
[QUOTE=MissTskTsk]
At one time, babies were required to have a middle name, if none was assigned by the parents, the state would add the middle initial R. This is why you see a lot of, generally men, 55 and older with the middle initial R but no real middle name. At least that’s what my grandmother and uncle tell me. They could have been pulling my leg though… but I don’t think so.
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It’s bullshit. My father’s family back to 1900 had no middle names, so unless those individuals are a LOT older than my grandparents, one of whom was born in the 19th Century, that’s just not true. But a lot of people think it’s true.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
People should be addressed in the manner preferred, but I think certain applications – historical works, scholarly works, encyclopaedic works, official or formal documentation, serious journalism – are justified in using a different standard. As a journalist, I know that the former member of Congress goes by “Billy Tauzin,” but for purposes of serious journalism on first reference, I will refer to him using some form of “Wilbert J. Tauzin II (commonly known as ‘Billy Tauzin’)” or “Wilbert J. ‘Billy’ Tauzin II.”
And once someone becomes a historical figure, his or her legal/formal/official name begins to become more important than what he or she preferred to be addressed as. We call him Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and “Mozart” on second reference, even though he himself preferred to drop the “Mozart” part for public purposes.
Anyway, my point is that there is a point at which a person’s preference to avoid his or her legal/formal/official name yields to other considerations.
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This strikes me as being in the same category as people who “discover” my maiden name then loudly proclaim "Ah-HAH! This is your real name!" No, it’s not. It’s not my legal name. It’s not the name on any of my ID, on any legal document I’ve signed in the past 20+ years. It’s not the name anyone refers to me by. Should I become famous I expect it will be with my current legal name. So WTF does it matter what was on the birth certificate?
Do we refer to John Wayne as “John Wayne” or “Marion Robert Morrison”? If you say “Marion Morrison” the average person says “WHO?” Say “John Wayne” you know who you’re talking about.
Fortunately, you do still see it nowadays, because it makes a mess of things if you don’t. If I’m grading homeworks, and I get one from “J. William Smith”, then I can figure out that it goes in the gradesheet in that blank spot where “John Smith” is supposed to be. Now, after a few homeworks, once I’ve seen the pattern, “Bill Smith” is fine, but at the start of the semester, it’d be a problem.
MissTskTsk, as a former professional genealogist, I can assure you that no U.S. state ever required that all babies have a middle name, or that any state assigned a middle initial of “R.” by default to any baby who did not.
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
This strikes me as being in the same category as
[/quote]
It strikes me as being of a completely different category. You’re not a historical figure. You’re not dead. You’re not being referred to in a scholarly, historical, etc., work.
This strikes me as just person A bullshitting around and person B being overly sensitive about it.
Right now, maybe it doesn’t matter. At some future unknown date, maybe it will matter to someone writing a historical, scholarly, etc., work.
Q: What was the impact of the French Revolution?
Zhou Enlai: It’s too early to tell.
As I mentioned before, we refer to W. A. Mozart as “Mozart” rather than “Amadeus.” We refer to Johannes Sebastian Bach or J. S. Bach, even though (my understanding is) that in Germany it’s not customary to use secondary given names.
It’s becoming more and more common to refer to Samuel Clemens rather than Mark Twain for whatever combination of reasons.
Again, if you’re addressing a person directly, then don’t address him or her as something that’s going to cause offense. However, when it comes to referring to someone in the third person, there are other considerations.
It’s similar to trademark law. Just because you own a trademark doesn’t mean you get to control other people’s speech except in very narrow circumstances. Just because it’s your name doesn’t mean that you have some moral right to control the whole world’s speech.
When it comes right down to it, if I want to refer to John Wayne or Marion Morrison, my choice is going to be dictated by factors other than what Wayne/Morrison’s personal preference was. He’s not here; he’s not part of the conversation; in fact, he’s dead; his personal preference is of diminishing significance to the weighing of factors.
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Yes, and for those of us who don’t have a middle name or initial it drives us batty when someone tries to force one on us. I have even had people insist that it is somehow illegal not to have a middle name!
I have to do that for the FAA - but I’m not so annoyed, because there it’s a matter of making it clear that I have no middle name rather than I just skipped that field on the form. The don’t try to force me to have something I don’t, which happens all to often when lazy computer programmers make that middle field mandatory.
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Interesting. Neither my brother nor I have a middle name, and I don’t recall it ever being an issue. I’m 56, so so much for MissTskTsk. My father has one starting with I, but he doesn’t know what it is. Having no middle name has saved me hours filling out forms.
I know another reason to use a middle name. I have a friend who goes by J. Peter, usually Peter. This is because his parents agreed on Peter J., but his father screwed up filling out the birth certificate.
[QUOTE=Walloon] MissTskTsk, as a former professional genealogist, I can assure you that no U.S. state ever required that all babies have a middle name, or that any state assigned a middle initial of “R.” by default to any baby who did not.
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Interesting.. all I know is that my grandmother and grandfather never assigned him a middle name or middle initial. According to my uncle, when he enlisted in the Navy in roughly 1964, they all were surprised to see R was listed on his b-cert as his middle name. shrug He was born on an indian reservation in Oklahoma, don’t know if that makes any kind of difference. This might be fun to research actually! My grandparents passed last year, but my uncle is still kickin’, might have to give him a call!
[QUOTE=acsenray]
As a journalist, I know that the former member of Congress goes by “Billy Tauzin,” but for purposes of serious journalism on first reference, I will refer to him using some form of “Wilbert J. Tauzin II (commonly known as ‘Billy Tauzin’)” or “Wilbert J. ‘Billy’ Tauzin II.”
[/QUOTE]
What about the former President of the United States who goes by “Jimmy Carter”? For purposes of serious journalism on first reference, would you refer to him using some form of “James E. Carter, Jr. (commonly known as ‘Jimmy Carter’)”?
(I’m not trying to be snarky, but I think this is an excellent example of the situation you’re discussing.)
This strikes me as just person A bullshitting around and person B being overly sensitive about it.
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I used to believe that, too, until I got married and it suddenly became of great concern to people I had just met whether or not I changed my name, didn’t change my name, hyphenated my name…
Trust me, most of these people AREN’T bullshitting, they get very worked up about it. Until I was an adult and got out in the real world I honestly had no idea how much it mattered to a certain type of person that one’s name was of conventional format, conventional spelling, that you had neither too few nor too many middle names… (My name is, apparently OK on spelling but I lack a middle name - apparently a grievous sin to many though why I haven’t a clue, and I have had co-workers who made it their mission in life to “prove” I have a middle name even though I don’t! :rolleyes: ) I had a co-worker once with a very difficult (for Americans) to pronounce-and-spell foreign name who went by a very conventional US name so people wouldn’t constantly be stumbling over his given name. This stupid ninny kept going around correcting everyone to his “real” name nevermind that he himself wanted to use the “Americanized” version. That’s just ridiculous.
When I meet someone if I have any doubt I ask them how they prefer to be referred to, correct pronunciation, etc. and then I stick to it, no matter how sillly, pretentious, or bizarre it seems to me. One’s name is part of one’s identity.
I get this about my first name a lot. I have a nick name; it’s the name I’ve been called since the day I was born, I’ve NEVER been called by my given name, ever… not even when mom was really mad at me (then she called me by my sister’s name usually!).
About half the time when I meet people they ask me “so what’s your real name?” Ugh. Each time, I have to say what my given name is, then tell them “but no one has ever called me that a day in my life.” After 41 years, it’s become tiresome. (bad part is that I like my given name much better than my nick name but getting people to change what they call me would seem weird.)
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
Joining such past Presidents as Hiram Ulysses Grant, Stephen Grover Cleveland, Thomas Woodrow Wilson, and David Dwight Eisenhower.
You can sympathize with the choice Grant had to make. But what were the other three thinking to choose their middle names over Steve, Tom, and Dave?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
Joining such past Presidents as Hiram Ulysses Grant, Stephen Grover Cleveland, Thomas Woodrow Wilson, and David Dwight Eisenhower.
You can sympathize with the choice Grant had to make. But what were the other three thinking to choose their middle names over Steve, Tom, and Dave?
[/QUOTE]
They subscribed to this theory (which George-Bill-George blew to hell)
I knew a guy named “R. Michael Lastname” who introduced himself that way - “Hi, I’m R. Michael.” Once folks figured out it wasn’t “Armichael” they tried “Michael” but he preferred… “R.” Kind of a weirdo.
In my family, males have a first initial of R, and go by their middle names. My brother got the “family” name, so he and my father both had the first name, but go by their middle names.
My name is Noel. Long O sound, NOT like the christmas carol. Back in high school, I found that if I use my first initial when signing stuff, it somehow makes the people pronounce my name correctly. When its not used, they pronounce it just like the christmas carol. Since that discovery, I use it constantly.
For official stuff, I put my first initial and middle name down. When I KNOW its going to get screwed up, I just use my middle name as my first name, and don’t worry about it.
