On the front page of the Washington Post this morning is an article concerning an Indonesian court’s dismissal of the case against former president Suharto.
The article is accompanied by a full-color Reuters photo of three large men gleefully and violently raining brutal, violent kicks on a smallish-looking woman sitting in the street, because she was a Suharto supporter.
Things like this make me sick to my stomach. They make me want to build a cabin in the deepest woods on the highest mountain and wait for people like this to finish up destroying each other. It really shakes my faith in my humanist philosophy.
Fuck. I’m going to be depressed all day over this.
Pl, you’re an intelligent man, educated and sophisticated, so I don’t quite get your shock or surprise. Yes, what you describe stinks, but it’s not new in Indonesia or anywhere else. In 1965, hundreds of thousands of Chinese merchants were killed or expelled from Indonesia under a putative crackdown on Communism, but which was really ethnic cleansing. In Afghanistan, women have been turned into the property of their husbands and fathers, unable to work or get an education. In Iraq, North Korea, the Sudan, and too many other countries to name, there is an unending litany of torture, misery, and starvation. If you focus only on the darkness in the human soul, you might as well pull the sheets over your head and stay in bed forever.
So what can you do? Keep doing what you’ve doing. I’m pretty sure you’re a member of Amnesty International ( you’re a socially-conscious man), so write a letter to protest an injustice. Get people around you involved.
Darkness and evil are everywhere, and the only way to fight darkness is with light, so be a candle in the dark. Don’t give in to despair because it will eat your soul. Remember that the world is a balance of light and dark and for every act of hate, you’ll find an act of kindness.
Educated, intelligent, and sophisticated does not equal uncaring or indifferent. I will really be worried if things like this fail to shock and offend me.
I understand Dennison’s desire to move to the woods not that I would do that, it won’t make things like this go away. I can only do my small part everyday to make this world a better place and I can’t do it if I am hiding in a cave.
I never said to be uncaring or indifferent, but I’m not surprised or shocked. Saddened, yes, angered, yes, but shocked? No. I have seen too much evil in the world to be surprised when more surfaces. What, you didn’t already know that this is how the world is? You can only be shocked by something new, and human evil is not new.
But it’s okay for you, pl, to tell me that I should die for having an opinion about a murder story that I related. After my aunt’s murder was splattered all over the papers, you have the fucking audacity to say that my reaction to the coverage of another murder was wrong. Am I not allowed to be sickened by what I see and relate that? I hate to tell you, but yes I am. And, yes you are, too.
I can’t believe that this post was started by someone who obviously has some anger-control problems. Your ‘humanist philosophy’? I’m sure it’s very “phil-centric”, and everyone else, unless they agree with you, be damned.
I believe that you said that I over-reacted in my thread – this coming from someone who, before I stopped reading his puerile trash, wished death upon me and called me all sorts of names, not to mention other wonderful indiscretions. ‘Mr. Sensitive’ is not a moniker that I would use for you. And I know that you would not begin to say those things to me if you were to meet me face-to-face. If you think that you would, then you need professional help, because apparently no one has told you that that is not proper, nor lawful, behavior. And, I wouldn’t take your shit. While I’m thinking about it, do you talk to your wife or your mother the way you attack some of the posters who are obviously female on this board? I get the same feeling in my stomach from your senseless, over-reacting attacks as you get from looking at that picture.
I should do a cut-and-paste of your vile harangue and shoot it right back at you.
I understand that your disgust is aimed at the three that attacked the lady, and I agree with you, but I still cannot believe that you posted this.
pldennison, I feel certain that you have probably done the equivalent of what those three thugs did to that lady at some point in your life, or at least fantasized about it. Your continued rants at me were no less hostile than the actions of those three men.
goboy: “intelligent, educated, and sophisticated”? There are many on this board that would strongly disagree with you, especially the sophisticated part, unless you tell people to “fucking die” at your afternoon tea parties.
pl, go ahead and have your temper tantrum. Call me all the names that you’d like, use all of your favorite playground insults – that’s your usual M.O. I won’t be reading it. I just happened to find the title of this thread ironic. You have my support if you want to move to that cabin.
In regards to the OP, I agree with you, pl – from your description, it made me sick, too. Evil has always existed, but that’s no reason to be complacent. I do hope that, after that picture was taken, somebody came to that lady’s defense and, in one way or another, made those guys regret their sick behavior.
Wow, you’ve been sitting here just waiting for your chance to spit this out, eh? I give it an 8.5 for anger, a 6 for clarity, and mebbe a 1.5 for relevance.
Since you don’t actually disagree with anything the OP is saying, how about if you at least start a different thread for this? Also, if you can include a link to this other conversation you are talking about, it would be a lot easier for the rest of us to understand the full story.
You never said in that thread that the story you were discussing concerned a relative of yours. Ever. And here is a link to the thread in question, lest anyone think I am lying. In fact, throughout the thread, you gave the impression that these were total strangers to you. So which is it? Was it your aunt, or were they strangers?
I apologized to you on that thread, and said that I had gone overboard and gone personal first. If you failed to read it, that is your problem.
I never said you should die, so you’re lying about that, which makes me suspect you’re lying about #1, above.
Beyond all the insults spread on that thread, I noticed that more people agreed with my characterization of the events in question than yours.
My objection is not to the event being reported. I’m glad it was reported. I encourage reporting of this kind of thing. What’s I’m upset by is the actions being committed by the people in the photo. Any reasonable person should be able to distinguish between the two.
You, IIRC, were not upset by what happened–you were upset that it was reported at all!! I, on the other hand, am upset by the actions of the people in the photo, not by its having been reported.
Riiiiight. Do these ring any bells?
"pldumbass - go fuck yourself back to Ohio, you fucking idiot. "
“Good job, douche bag! Your mom must be so proud!”
"And behind the anonymity of a message board, quite sociopathic ‘stuff’, as is evident by your posts.
pl - you’re a pathetic pussy hiding behind your keyboard. if you’ve gotta work yourself up before you jack off, you should be ready blow. you’re welcome."
Don’t lecture me on anger, pal. You not only have anger issues, you appear to be literally incapable of being disagreed with. In fact, when the tide turned in that thread towards people agreeing with me, you cut and run. Get over it. The fact that you bring it up now is only indicative of how much of a grudge you hold, and for how long.
I did not “wish you death.”
I believe the name-calling was just about balanced. I will, however, remind you of the old maxim, “If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.”
Boy oh boy–if ever someone needed to remove a plank from their eye. I mean, really. Honestly. Are you that blinded to your own behavior?
How I talk to my wife and mother is no business of yours, except for me to note that I don’t talk to anyone that way as long as they don’t act like, well, you.
Please point out the last time I “attacked” someone who was “obviously female,” without cause.
Please point out the obvious females among the following group of random screen names: Jodi, Anthracite, jab1, Myndephuquer, Maeglin, Libertarian, RTFirefly, Gadarene.
Hey, I provided a link to it. The apology is in there as well. So do your best. I own up to the fact that I said regrettable things, and I apologize for them. Do you?
THis may come as a shock to you, but I am almost painfully uninterested in what you believe or don’t believe about me.
That’s a bold and slanderous accusation, and you’d better back it up or rescind it. And I mean criminally slanderous, to imply that I fantasize about or actually do beat up women. You had better put your money where your mouth is, and muy pronto. This isn’t something said in the heat of anger–this is a calculated accusation, and you better be prepared to support it.
And yours were as well, but apparently they were written in disappearing ink in your reconstruction of events.
Retreat and declare victory, just like you always do. Typical.
And, incidentally, I am as willing to apologize now for the things I said in that thread as I was then. I am not going to pretend that I said them, but I am sorry I said them, and have spent the last two months (in light of that and an even more regrettable incident with Jodi) making a concerted effort to avoid saying those sorts of things to anyone. In any case, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you’d like to pursue it further, start another thread or take it to my e-mail.
pldennison, I disagree with just about everything you have to say. However, the only post in the two threads that I disagree with is your apology. The phucker deserved everything you said. I would insult the guy myself, but I cannot imaging following your masterful performance.
Sorry, Jodi–didn’t mean to drag you into something that doesn’t involve you. Just mentioning that that incident was part of the impetus for me to try cleaning up my act a tad.
I regards to the OP, I am in complete agreement with you, pld. I am also extremely surprised that anyone would come into the pit and try to make you feel that it is wrong to vent about something like this. Putting aside completely the pointless and annoying vitriol dished out by phucker (which has nothing to do with the OP and appears to be an entirely personal grudge) and only reading the other replies, I am really glad that I deleted my own pit thread I started yesterday, but erased before posting. It was entitled “Some days I’m really a misanthrope”, and was the same sort of vent as this OP, but was about several unrelated incidents of violence to people, animals, and the environment, and suggesting that sometimes I am tempted to wish humanity off the planet altogether. It was much more heavy-duty than pldennison’s post, but like his was not expressing shock and surprise, but rather disgust and outrage. I think the Pit is just the place to vent this sort of steam. It helps to get it all out before the pressure gets to be too much.
And yeah, sometimes if I’m not careful and I read the newspaper in the evening when I’m too tired to be callous, I find myself hating humanity to the point where I can hardly stand to leave the house.
pl, I wish that I had the energy right now to give a point-by-point, as you did. Thank you for taking the time to do that. I appreciate what you said, even though I did smell a bit of vinegar in there (insert smiley here).
I did not see your apology – I felt that you had nothing positive to say to me or in regards to me, therefore I felt that it would be a bit masochistic of me to read any more of your posts. Your citing of a story that upset you seemed a bit ironic, and it did bring back thoughts of the thread that I started about a story that upset me. You do seem sincere now, and I appreciate that.
The thread that I started was an emotional reponse to the story that I cited. Just so there’s no confusion, that story was not about my aunt. My aunt was murdered in a robbery of a convience store – she was forced to lie face down on the floor, and the robbers shot her in the head, removing a lot of it. I guess for closure, my cousins and uncle had the casket open for the receiving of family and friends – that has affected me deeply. It happened in a relatively small town, and the local newspaper was a bit callous and brutal. I guess that I just wanted the media to leave that family in the story the hell alone, as I wish they would have mine. I didn’t want to hide behind what happened to my family to justify my response, because I would be just as guilty if I did – I was hoping that I could get anyone reading to understand without putting that on display. As you know, people here can be cruel, and my aunt doesn’t deserve that. I hope that no one reading this will make fun of the situation or cast doubt that it happened.
Yeah, the media has a right to report what it did, but I don’t think that removes any responsibility of sensitivity. I guess I wanted to yell at the world, and then be left alone, but I did post it the Pit, and I was taught a lesson.
pl, I apologize for my words that offended you. As you pointed out, there is already enough vile in the world – I’m sorry that I added to it. I now look forward to when that thread and my post in this one are deleted. Thank you for setting a good example.
In my job, I get to see and deal with people across the entire spectrum of humanity. Most of them are decent human beings. There is a sizable percentage, though, that make me want to say “fuck it all” and pull a Kazinsky (sp?). (Not the bombs, just the cabin.)
My entire working life since the Army has been involved with working with the public. As a whole, they ain’t nice. It’s not a long step from “asshole” to “worthless scumbag.”
Who needs 'em? A few more years and you can address my mail to:
That Weird Guy
Backwoods Shack
The Forest, Somewhere, USA
Um, as much as I want to stay the heck out of this one, you did tear a strip off pepperlandgirl recently in the pit post that, IIRC, was both personal and vicious in nature.
I have noticed you have been especially angry of late, and I hope you feel better soon.
The link to the other thread was appreciated, and while you did apologize, it had a false ring to it, like saying you are sorry if what you did upset someone - its not like saying you are sorry you did it…y’know?
OK, am I the only one who sees the irony that what started the whole thing, the woman being beaten the three guys, was because she was a supporter of the Suharto dictatorship?