“That bacardi flavor certainly does make a difference, doesn’t it.”
This was put into the “politics of transformation” category (“male protagonists forced to take stock in their lives and the changes in themselves they’ve witnessed”), and I’m not sure it belongs there, especially the movie version. Yes, Sky falls in love, but it happens exactly the way he anticipates it will in “I’ll Know.” The last time we see him, he’s settling his marker and then heading off to do the same kind of business he’s always done. There’s also no real clue that he’s going to return. Sarah is the one who takes stock in her life, her expectations, and ends up changing after a drunken night in Havanna. In the stage show, she plans on transforming Sky later (the cut song “Marry the Man Today”) and the wedding scene in that shows Sky in a Mission uniform (and Nathan in “conservative” clothing), but here all we’ve got is Sarah abandoning her home and cofmort zone and running off into the night after the man she had definitely not been dreaming of.
I love this movie and its picture of the legend of New York. The opening drops you straight into a world that’s just exciting enough, colors, bustle, movement, and a little bit of crime - but not too much, and sets the scene for the next two hours. The casting is odd (Frank Sinatra in the non-singing role, but given an extra song), but Marlon Brando works as Sky. It has a classic story (boy meets girl), wonderful numbers, and is just fun beginning to end.
I get the sense you’re referring to another thread I don’t know about. Your post reads a little like it’s continuing some other conversation.
That said, you could make a case for both Sky and Nathan being “transformed.” By the end of the show, Nathan (and all his buddies) has given up gambling and (just Nathan, not all his buddies) finally tied the knot with Adelaide after 14 years. Sky went from being a bachelor without any long-term investment in any one woman to getting married, and presumably gave up gambling as well. Sarah might have given up her current life to marry him, but so did he for her.
I love this movie. I’ve got a special place for Guys & Dolls as it’s the biggest production I worked on in high school and I have a lot of fond memories of it. The film is a great way to recapture that. The actors are all fun, even if Sinatra wasn’t real happy to be in the film (AIUI, he wanted to play Sky). Brando does a fantastic job with “Luck Be A Lady” and I thought Sinatra’s song “Adelaide” was well done and fit with the show.
I can understand why Sinatra didn’t want to play Nathan – the role was designed for an actor who could not sing (Sam Levene). In the stage version, the only song Nathan sings is “Sue Me,” and that was especially designed for his limited range and ability (“Call a lawyer and” was added to the lyrics so that Levene could get up to speed with the tune). Casting him was wasting his biggest talent, and “Adelaide” is an exceedingly minor work.
But Brando is a very good Sky. He carries it off well and, if he’s no Sinatra when he’s singing, he’s good enough to sell the song. Vivian Blane and Stubby Kaye are the real standouts, though.
Overall, it’s a good version of the musical. It was a mistake to leave out “Bushel and a Peck” “Pet Me Poppa” is a weak replacement. Also, I wish they hadn’t cut “More I Cannot Wish You,” though I suppose they just didn’t have time for it.
Actually, I never liked “More I Cannot Wish You” While the sentiment is lovely, the song itself is very draggy and slows the pace of the whole show - even when, in my junioir high production, the tempo was sped up a bit.
Altho Sinatra was, at the time, Hollywood’s Golden Boy, I agree he was woefully miscast. I also agree that “Pet Me, Poppa” pales next to “Bushel”. Adelaide is one of my dream roles (along with Dolly Levy, Mame Dennis, Vera Charles, Mrs Lovett, Matron Mama Morton, etc etc I could do whole thread on just that) and I had the score memorized within a week of first hearing the original Broadway cast recording back in the 60s.
Far and away, my two favorite numbers are “Fugue for Tinhorns” and “Oldest Established”, with “Adelaide’s Lament” hugging close in second place
Brando was the hottest actor in show biz at the time, and snatching him up for a light-hearted musical romp was quite a coup at the time. The question of his ability to sing was entirely secondary. While it is true that he “performed” all of his own songs, the voice you hear on the soundtrack is the result of many, many takes that were heavily tweaked and spliced together – a tribute to the skill of the sound engineers rather than to any vocal ability on Brando’s part.
Many stories have also been told about Sinatra’s fury over not being cast in the role of Sky, and the endless fun Brando had at Frank’s expense. The tale most often cited involves the meeting between Nathan and Sky at Mindy’s Cafe. It was common knowledge at the time that Sinatra hated doing more than two or three takes of any particular scene. Brando, on the other hand, would insist on doing as many takes as necessary to capture a “perfect” performance. So while filming this particular scene (which takes only about 5 or 6 minutes minutes of screen time), Brando repeatedly blew his lines or made other “mistakes” that rendered the take unusable. Unable to retaliate, Sinatra was forced to sit and fume as the shot was set up over and over again, then to deliver his lines with a warm and friendly manner only to have the scene ruined yet again. What made it even worse was the fact that Sinatra had to eat a slice of cheesecake (which he detested) during every take. Finally (and quite literally) fed up, he insisted that he couldn’t eat another bite and the production shut down for the evening. Filming resumed the next day, whereupon Brando got through the scene on the first take.
This thread is part of the “Son of the SDMB Musicals Group” series (itself a sort of sequel to an earlier musical discussion series). The home thread is here, although it’s not necessary to read it to participate in the discussion in this thread – the other one is mostly keeping track of what movies are on the agenda and who will be responsible for starting each new thread.
(Guys and Dolls is unfortunately one of many movies I was not able to [re]watch for this discussion series, so I don’t have much else to contribute here. Maybe I should join Netflix…)
I agree that More I Cannot Wish You is one of the great Broadway “this would be a good time to go to the restroom and or get a glass of wine while there’s no line” numbers. It’s a buzzkill and comes across as a song that they wrote for their niece’s wedding and just stuck in there.
All things considered I thought Sinatra was actually great as Nathan Detroit. Of course I’m one of those people who never found him remotely attractive (in appearance I mean, I love his voice) so to me he is the schlub the character calls for, but if you found him sexy he probably wouldn’t be. I think Nathan Lane was a great choice in the revival.
My only real problem with the musical (other than MICWY and some wasted numbers) is the sewer set. I know they’re not going for gritty realism or even Les Mis in the sewers, but c’mon, you could perform surgery in that place; throw in some Ikea bookshelves and dining tables and you’d have a great loft (or anti-loft I guess). Let’s at least have some water falling from the ceiling or drab colors! But, be that as it may-
I LOVE the supporting actors. Stubby Kaye need never have done another movie and he’d have made contribution enough after Sit Down, but I particularly love Sheldon Leonard (in anything really). B.S. Pullywas absolutely perfect as Big Julie- “Oh, I remember where the spots was”- one of the great scenes of musical comedy. Brando’s comic timing was great in the same scene: “Am I right handed or left handed? I’ll give you a hint”. Plus Runyon’s “Bronx Elizabethan” dialect is just fun- the lack of contractions and the slightly Deadwood-ish exalted language.
Overall a fun movie that is best when a couple of the “yawn” numbers are cut.
I haven’t seen the movie, but while I like the show just fine, I think that Sit Down You’re Rocking the Boat is head and shoulders better than any of the other songs.
I saw it on Broadway last Tuesday. It hasn’t gotten good reviews, but I thought it was great. My favorite number Sit Down You’re Rocking the Boat was even better than the movie and had a twist I wasn’t expecting. Of course, it’s Nicely Nicely’s song but another character did get to sing a stanza. It worked really well. Does anyone know if this was always part of the stage version of the song or something specific to this production?
What? They give away part of Sit Down to another character? No, no, no!! This is Nicely’s song, and always was. (Yes I played Nicely once, years ago, in a high school production - my second musical)
Who else gets a stanza? Which stanza (or did they write a new one)?
I disliked it, too, and thought it was the worst song in the musical.
As I got older, and had a daughter, I began to understand. It’s probably the best expression of a father’s feelings ever written in a Broadway song – sweet without being cloyingly sentimental (Yes, I’m looking at you, Oscar Hammerstein II).
I didn’t have time to re-watch it (I have the DVD, of course) but I’ve seen it often enough to be able to make a few comments. I remember years ago seeing “Bushel and a Peck” performed as part of the play, possibly on one of those Broadway retrospective shows, and despite my fondness for felines agree that it works better than “Pet Me, Poppa”. “Take BackYyour Mink” I like mainly for the line, “To from whence it came”, which I occasionally quote during discussions of proper grammar and use of prepositions.
I would have loved to have seen Nathan Lane in the revival. But then, I like seeing him in just about anything. I seem to remember that when he was in “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum” I started looking into what it would cost to fly to NY just to see it.
Agreed. I have great respect for Sinatra’s voice and life’s work, but his appearance and demeanor always struck me as a wiry tough guy who had no problem getting down and dirty, who likes dealing with the slightly uglier side of things. (Don Rickles: “Frank, make yourself at home. Hit someone!”) Sky Masterson, on the other hand, is a sleek, well to do, classy gentleman gambler, and I can’t reconcile the image of one with the other. Detroit, while he doesn’t like doing the dirty work is willing to hold crap games in warehouses, sewers, and even the mission, which very much does fit with my image of Sinatra. I personally thought the casting was right on.
I was always disappointed by Jean Simmons. Granted, the role didn’t give her that much to work with, but her Sarah seemed too businesslike to be naive enough to get dragged into Skye’s scheme. Compared to everyone else in the cast (even as minor a character as the General) she seemed to be dragged along, rather than doing anything for the story.And compared to Brando’s song-and-dance turns, Simmons also came off as really stiff.
Sinatra was ripped off, and I understand his beef. His subsequent recording of “Luck Be a Lady” is a well-deserved classic. I think he could’ve pulled off the Skye role, though it would have made Skye a bit rougher and less sexy. Still, I think Sinatra can get away with a lot thanks to that voice. That amazing, luscious voice. Sigh!
Simmons and Brando together make the best argument for Protools that I’ve ever heard from a pair of professional musical leads. “I’ll Know” is just freakin’ painful thanks to their out-of-tune yowling. Brando’s casting I can understand – he was a superstar and added tremendously to the box office, and the rest of his performance (aside from the singing) is excellent. Even his singing is generally okay, with “I’ll Know” being a very big exception. I admit this is the only role I’ve ever found Brando sexy in.
But Simmons? Sure, she was a popular star, but so were umpteen other actresses with much, much better voices. For example, Shirley Jones could’ve performed the hell out of this role, although admittedly she might’ve wanted to get away from ‘tightly-wound prudish virgin’ type – I don’t remember, was “The Music Man” after this or before? Anyway, Simmons’s acting was serviceable but nothing so brilliant that would make me forgive such execrable singing. So what the heck was behind her casting?
And I’ve always wondered why the popular “Bushel and a Peck” would have been lost for the sake of dumbass “Pet Me, Poppa.” Wasn’t “Bushel” an actual hit? On checking Wikipedia I see it was indeed, as recorded by Perry Como and Betty Hutton, and lasted on Billboard’s charts for eighteen weeks, going as high as #6. What the heck were the filmmakers thinking? Were they just dying to see the Goldwyn Girls in cat outfits?
Can anyone else think of another example of a well known song from a stage musical being omitted in a film version?
Guys and Dolls is a lot of fun, and I think an improvement on the stage version, which for me goes on a bit long. And it’s a treasure for recording for posterity Vivian Blaine and Stubby Kaye’s performances. Still, I wish Robert Alda could have gotten his chance at Skye. The Original Cast recording is brilliant, and his performance is a standout even alongside Blaine.
Funnily enough, after reading this thread I went and poked at Youtube videos, and I found one of the Bellagio fountains “dancing” in time to a recording of Sinatra singing “Luck Be A Lady”. I found I really didn’t care for it. I suppose that might be a product of me hearing the Brando version first (discounting my high school production), but to my ears Brando knocks it out of the park while Sinatra really killed the pacing of the song as I knew and loved it. It’s just not really his style.
That’s a bit of a swingy version, though, not the musical version. I mean, it’s Nelson Riddle, that’s pretty much how Riddle orchestrates everything: big, lush, romantic. But I think Sinatra could’ve hit the original version – which is faster, more urgent – right outta the ballpark. Sinatra can mold his voice to different styles pretty well.
Still, I understand preferring the Brando version, especially if that’s the one you’re used to. I think that’s by far his best song in the film, and not just because the rest of 'em are kinda yucky, but because he does a fabulous job with it, even with his meh voice. But I grew up with Sinatra (my father was a huge afficianado) and the original Alda version, so the Brando isn’t nearly as sacrosanct to me.
SigmaGirl: Ew, Doris Day? Yuck. (I know I’m in the minority here.) I wonder how Kathryn Grayson would’ve done, though. Might be too peppery for the role.
I like Sinatra as Nathan Detroit, too, but ironically, I didn’t like him as a singing Nathan Detroit. Especially in the song “Adalaide,” because he goes from wiry tough guy to smooth, rat pack, finger snapping lounge singer guy. It didn’t work for me in the character.
.JPG){kind=link}