Son of Zorn - should I be concerned?

In case you haven’t heard about this new Fox show…well, you haven’t been on Kongregate, which ran two promotions for this into the damn ground for at least several weeks. The premise is that Zorn is a cartoon barbarian living in the cartoon land of Zephyria, whose appearance is loosely based on He-Man, who had a son with his now-former girlfriend Edie, who lives on Orange County. For whatever reason, he starts missing his son and decides that he has to move to Orange County in order to be a better father. And since Edie is now engaged to someone else, Zorn also has to learn to live on his own, which means finding his own place, holding down a job, figuring out bus schedules, you get the picture. And yes, he’s a cartoon character living in “the real world” (which the show handles surprisingly seamlessly). You can watch the episodes online here.

Okay, I’ll get right to the point. The first episode left me unimpressed. The second episode gave me a headache. And the third episode made he despise anyone who had anything to do with this raging debacle. The problem is very simple: There is not one even remotely likable character. ANYWHERE. Zorn is a one-note flaming colossal jerk whose schtick is that he blabs and blabs and blabs and never accomplishes a damn thing. Alangulon is a walking punching bag with the emotional range of a cinderblock. Edie is the same out-of-touch know-nothing irritating nagging harpy we’ve all seen like ten billion times before. Craig is a ridiculous hodgepodge of “quirky” traits that doesn’t come within a par 5 of a recognizable human being. The boss is a tedious right-wing strawman who, of course, never stands of up to Zorn (despite seeing ample evidence that he’s all talk) because, well, I think “shut up” works here. Oh, and the latest episode introduced a big bully who’s allowed to torment and assault Alangulon with utter impunity, which is both highly realistic and screamingly funny in 2016, and a gym coach-shaped Random Dialogue Generator.

Of this show’s many, many, maaaaaany problems, my hugest one is Zorn. I’ve never seen a leading man who’s so utterly disgusting and has literally no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I’m aware that this type of character has been a hallmark of comedies for a long time now, and it can work if…very important now…he occasionally has to face the consequences. (Duckman was a perfect example.) Zorn throws around insults, shows no respect for anyone’s property, repeatedly insults and defies his boss, goes on and on about the life he left behind, never makes the slightest effort to adjust to his new world (after everything my parents accomplished from the first moment they arrived here from China, I have absolutely zero respect for anyone who has that attitude), and is basically completely useless to anybody…and no one ever does anything about it. The show doesn’t even bother to BS up a reason, it’s just, oh, hey, there’s this big muscular doof with a sword, better let him do whatever he wants!

So what exactly an I concerned about?

Well, the fact that the main character is a royal douchebag and no one else is watchable and…no one seems to want to say this. Actually, I’m having trouble finding any discussion at all. (The random blurbage on IMDB is “discussion” in the same sense that throwing a rock at a wall ever few minutes is “sculpting”.) Which is eerily similar to what happened with Beavis and Butthead. Remember? I pleaded, over and over, one simple message: “This show is disgusting! You can see that, right?” And the only voices that were not filled with glowing praise were the ones spewing that tripe about making kids set fire to their brothers or whatever stupid crap.

But I’m not worried about it turning into Beavis and Butthead, which, as it turns out was pretty much harmless. (After all the arglebargle about the brilliant satire, the only thing that survived was “Huh huh huh huh, you said ______.”, and let’s face it, there really aren’t that many opportunities for that one.) I’m worried about it turning into South Park. You know, the show that started out with a lot of shock value (this, you’ll remember, was what convinced Matt and Mike Chapman to never use any swear words in Homestarrunner.com) but had some good writing and some really funny episodes, then turned Eric Cartman into the invincible god-king jerk and pretty much sent everything down the toilet. The thing was, the show had a fairly strong following before that, but there was still plenty of honest criticism (the infamous Terrence and Philip fakeout was a great example). After it became the Eric Cartman Show, all the talk was 100% glowing raves all the time. Not only that, these fans would viciously pounce on even the slightest criticism, to the point where every bit of dissent just gave up even trying. South Park is effectively immortal now, and if Matt and Trey Parker ever decide to end it, it will be completely on their own terms, all other powers in the universe being utterly powerless to stop them.

If Son of Zorn becomes a hit (admittedly a pretty big longshot, but you never know), the message will be clear: If you embrace total, unrepentant, irredeemable, unironic (whatever that means) jerkishness, your show is invincible. Let the critics wail, let the press stew in outrage. You will never be cancelled, you will never be banned, your ratings will never suffer, you can run whatever nonsense you want and it will not end until YOU say it ends.

Yeah, I’m overthinking this, I know. It’s just that, well, this just flipped all the right switches for some reason, and it bugs me a lot more than, say, King of the Hill ever did.

What do you think? (Other than I probably should’ve given up on Burrito Bison Launcha Libre a lot sooner? :slight_smile: )

For the record, it’s currently 57 on Metacritic. Yeah, my cable provider is real big on this Metacritic thing for some reason.

Meh, I think it’s kinda funny. I’ve only seen the first two episodes, maybe it falls apart in the third.

No significant character development yet but it’s just getting started and I can see the setup for character arcs as the show progresses. Zorn is definitely challenged trying to fit in with life in Orange County- definitely a setup for character growth. And Alan’s initial refusal to have anything to do with his longtime absentee dad is also a setup for growth.

The whole scene with the extravagant gift that would have allowed Alan his own transportation rather than the bus, I thought that whole segment was hilarious- especially because of how they undersold it.

Anyway, as with anything that features Cheryl Hines, I figure that even if I don’t enjoy the rest of the show I can still kick back for 30 minutes and appreciate how insanely hot she is.

I hated the show.

That being said, what I’m getting from the OP is, if this show becomes a hit, that obviously means the moral fabric of society is surely coming undone. REPENT! Ye sinners!!"

Personally, I think dark comedy can play a very important role in a healthy psyche. If anything to act as a release valve for all the nasty crap that accumulates with in us.
And BTW, Beavis and Butthead were fucking awesome.

The bird scene was great, but other than that the show is mostly underwhelming so far. I don’t hate it as much as I hated Allen Gregory though.

I agree that it’s long past time time that Hollywood started bringing back likable characters instead of jerks.

As for Cheryl Hines being hot, as a straight female, I’ll have to take your word. What’s up with her mouth though? Are those ill-fitting dentures or something?

I’ve only watched the first episode and thought it was okay, the other two episodes are sitting on my DVR and I might get around to watching them or I might just delete them. But your conclusion is bizarre, because no show is invincible, especially on network TV. I don’t know what show that you are thinking of that got banned, but if shows put on a bunch of nonsense that no one likes, they get cancelled because the ratings suffer.

Who strapped you down and made you watch it?

And BTW your analysis of South Park is ludicrous. Based on what you’ve written I’m unconvinced you’ve ever even seen it.

I glossed right over that, but I agree that the analysis of South Park is wrong. It has high points and low points, and very few if any fans will give it 100% glowing raves all the time. I think you set up a strawman fan.

It’s true that it has been on forever and will likely keep going until the creators decide to end it, but that’s not because it’s the Cartman show, it’s because Comedy Central has relatively few hits and South Park is a steady hit for them. They don’t have Jon Stewart anymore and The Daily Show with Trevor Noah is still working things out, The Colbert Report is no more, The Nightly Show was never a huge hit and is gone, Inside Amy Schumer is a decent critical and ratings hit but I think she’s ending it soon if not already. Fox already has The Simpsons and other things to hang its hat on, it’s unlikely that Son of Zorn will become its next Simpsons.

It’s ended as in she is working on other projects and there is no schedule for another season right now but I think she left the door open for more down the road.

I’m still prone to say “Settle down, Beavis” when someone is getting overly excited although I guess it’s lost on this younger generation. I think B&B was more important for pushing the boundaries in general than for infinitely quotable lines.

This makes me think though that, while people would still argue for the relevance of the Simpsons and South Park based on ratings, their actual ability to penetrate the culture is far diminished from their heyday. You still hear people quote the Simpsons all the time but it’s almost always from seasons 1-10 of the show (now in season 28). The most South Park I see mentioned is the “douche & turd sandwich” election bit which was coined in 2004 – 12 years ago.

And this is different from The Last Man on Earth in what way?

Then again, considering that TLMOE is in its third season, maybe you need to be concerned about Zorn.

I thought it would be a new show to watch with my daughter. Nope! As much as she loves adult (ish) animated shows I thought this might be right down our alley. I didn’t care for it. I just didn’t find it funny and none of the characters was at all endearing or particularly clever. We only watched two episodes. Last night I asked if she wanted to watch the third. She chose studying math, her least favorite subject, over watching this show again.

And I was grateful.

Would you watch it if they didn’t throw in the (crappy) animation gimmick?

I watched about the first 10 minutes of the 1st ep and switched to SNF. It felt like some random TV exec’s idea jotted down on a cocktail napkin and passed on to developmental. “Hey, make a show about a cartoon barbarian who can’t fit into normal society! It’ll be a hoot!”

It looked like a skit from the second half of a SNL show.

I am ashamed to admit that I pretty much had that thought when I first heard of the show. It’s a good thing I’m not a TV exec, I guess, because this show is terrible. As you said, everyone is basically unlikeable and have no human traits.

I haven’t watched the show. But why should I care if any of the characters on the show are “likeable”? The only thing I want from the characters in TV shows and movies is for them to be entertaining.

Characters in TV shows are not part of your social circle.

Son of Zorn, on it’s own merits, is okay. And I say that as someone who loves the premise, since a horrible He-Man character who acts like my DnD “blood for the blood god” Barbarian is hilarious. But the timing on a lot of the jokes feels off. Episode 3 was actually the best so far, I think, in those terms. But I still bet the show doesn’t make it past one season.

But worrying about it because everyone is an asshole? That’s half the fun. Lighten up. Heck, all the characters in The Big Bang Theory are assholes and bad people, but it’s just chugging along just fine. And your analysis of South Park feels really off the mark too, for what it’s worth.

I thought I was the only one who did that. God I miss B&B. :frowning:

Wow, plenty of responses in just two days. I’m glad to see that opinions here, at least (I don’t know what the heck’s going on at IMDB and maybe I should be just as glad) look to be running across the board. That means that this show is going to succeed or fail on its own merits, which is about as good as I could have possibly hoped for.

All righty, responses…

bienville - See, funny thing is, if Zorn was always like that, solving every problem with violence, that actually would make this more watchable. Heck, the whole point of Happy Tree Friends (lordy, I hope someone gets that reference :slight_smile: ) was excessive bloodshed in a highly incongruous setting, and it was pretty funny most of the time. But he just flaps his jaws on and on and on and airs his complete ignorance, and I’m not sitting through 10 more episodes to see if it’s leading to something.

Grrr! - Trust me, this year’s election has demonstrated the rending of society’s moral fabric far more than some obscure Fox Sunday comedy. I’m more concerned about the influence it could have on the rest of television. Or, alternatively, the influence that led a Fox executive to think this was a good idea to result in a whole lot more unwatchable dreck in the future. I don’t have total control over the TV in my household, so this, while probably a minor concern, isn’t nonexistent.

And as for Beavis and Butthead kicking ass and ruling and being totally cool and great and awesome…I know. No need to convince me. I know, dammit. Still could never watch the thing, but that’s neither here nor there.

DCnDC - What convinced me to watch it was Kongregate putting its weight behind it. (Yes, I know what it is, but video games are not inherently evil.) I actually considered giving up after the second episode, but I wanted to see if it was just a misstep and the third episode would be better. It was worse. Now I’m done.

And while I haven’t been a regular viewer of South Park for a long time, I did catch some of the later episodes (Up The Down Steroid, Chickenlover, that Waco parody, the one which points out that all the boys look alike, that cult one, the taking care of an egg one…I think there were a couple more.) Is remembering a certain percentage of episodes a requisite for…whatever? In any case, I’m not interested.

That Don Guy - Y’know, I actually thought about that one for a bit, even though I never mentioned it here and don’t see what the relevance is, other than the fact that I gave up on it after three episodes as well. From what I did see, it’s a typical absurdist sitcom, except with a minimalist bent due the fact that, well, there are very few people still alive. I pretty much just got tired of it, and it never viscerally disgusted me the way SoZ did. I was shuddering in disgust at parts of episode 2, I kid you not.

Czarcasm - Y’know, I never really thought that was a big deal. It’s certainly not a new idea, at least as old as Mary Poppins. The juxtaposition between real and cartoon does have its moments (Craig washing away the bird’s blood was the perfect example), but just way too few.

Little Nemo/magnusblitz - They’re not entertaining either. Look, characters don’t have to be paragons of virtue or good friends to be likable. I mean, just look at Empire. Lucious is a greedy, vindictive petty tyrant (and has committed more bloodshed than Zorn can even imagine), Andre wavers constantly and always seems one inch from a meltdown, Jamal has a good heart but shows his weakness at the worst times, Hakeem tries to do the right thing but his ego’s always getting in the way, Anika is a cold-blooded schemer, Cookie is…obnoxious, and so on. But that’s fine because they’re compelling characters. They have depth, nuance, shades. They do things and deal with the consequences. I’d never be a friend to any of them, but who these characters are, what they deal with, it works for the show. Zorn doesn’t work, Alangulon doesn’t work, Edie doesn’t work, Craig doesn’t work, the boss doesn’t work, nobody here is funny, or interesting, or entertaining, or compelling, or layered.

As for South Park, if you know of anyone who’s ever spoken out against it (other than Moviebob, and he pretty much just thinks it’s overrated; he doesn’t hate it), I’d like to see it. Until then, what I know is what I’ve seen.

Looking to the title, why would you need to be concerned about any mode of entertainment? Either you like it or you dislike it, regardless of anyone else’s opinion. Are you concerned that you might like it, but the general population does not, or vice versa? If so, stop worrying about that, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, loathe what you loathe, and don’t feel bad about that (at least, in regards to entertainment - not to be extrapolated to moral stances).

Regarding Son of Zorn, I watched the first episode and was thoroughly unimpressed. Unless some really good buzz builds up around it (like happened with Parks and Recreation), I won’t be budgeting any more of my limited TV time on it. If it does get the good buzz, I go back and watch anew and still don’t like it, well, you know what they say…two strikes and you’re out (“that’s not how baseball works” :cool:).