Never thought I’d write this, but I’m with Liberal.
Would it have been before you read it on SDMB, I wonder.
Again to echo Liberal, tiresome is the conception that Southerners are monolithic and that their “pride” is tied in with racism and past atrocities. Many New Yorkers have pride (and those who don’t should) and I honestly don’t think it’s because they all love sweatshops, Boss Tweed, and the mafia.
I think you mean “beam,” but since that particular metaphor applies to hypocrisy, it is meaningless in this case. I couched nothing in sweetness.
Bingo!
There is a separate Southern experience and culture, and if outsiders think there’s nothing to be proud of, well tough. You’ll never understand. Sorry!
Sounds weird, doesn’t it? But me, too.
I agree, however my posts did not slam Southerners as a group. I just think the “Bless his heart” bit is infuriating. Only an asshole would say it and mean it and even your joking use of it was annoying. It is a stupid thing to say. Please, just call me an asshole instead of that tired lying cliché.
Lost me on this one, I was responding and mostly agreeing with **Liberal ** that the “Youse guys” thing is stupid. The whole Goomba speak thing sounds very dumb. The bad part is I run into Goombas and it is not just a joke. Worst yet, I had a cousin-in-law that talked like this.
Now can we seperate the Southern Pride thing from proudly flying the confederate flag? Do you proud Southerners really think the Confederate Flag represents anything smart and good or do you perhaps agree with us ‘evil’ Northerners that it is stupid?
Jim
See Post #6.
Have I or has anybody else here ever said anything that would imply I/we thought of the two as connected? I’ve spoken against it numerous times on the SDMB (including in this thread) and beyond, besides which (as I’ve also mentioned many times) the Confederate flag rarely flies over anything, only the battle flag of certain regiments. Frankly my dear I don’t give a damn whether Northerners think it’s stupid or not- it’s offensive and inaccurate on its own merits and this has never been contested by me or, to my knowledge, anybody else in the thread.
That said I have no problem with the (correct) Confederate flags flying over certain appropriate historic sites (battlefields, buildings, cemeteries, etc.) or on private property (if you want to fly a swastika flag on private property tis your right).
PS- From my own first post in this thread:
My post wasn’t meant to be confrontational, but it was. I apologize. I was actually looking to meet you and **Liberal ** and **Silenus ** halfway on this.
For the record, I think flying “Nazi” swastika should be illegal. I understand this might fly in the face of the 1st amendment, but I don’t feel we made peace with the Nazis, just the Germans, if you choose to fly the Nazi flag, you are still an enemy of the free world.
I also strongly believe no state capitol should be flying the confederate flag and that any yahoo flying it deserves any automatic derision that gets directed at them.
I am glad that we all seem to be able to agree on the confederate flag at least.
That is often what gets these debates rolling and then it usually takes one sweeping statement by either side to get it up to a 200+ post debate over the South vs. the North. Actually even that is not fair, on this board, it seems like it mostly starts over whether the North or the South is more racist.
Unlike all of you that can trace your ancesters back to the Mayflower and the Bering Ice Bridge, my earliest ancestor in the USA got here after the Civil War had ended. They all sailed in and hailed that finest of all Ladies.
Jim
Your ancestors sailed in the Statue of Liberty? That must have been one hell of a crossing. (And I think you’ll find that the finest of all Ladies is and remains Cher [a southerner, incidentally].)
Me too.
I am Southern born and bred spanning 400 years but I live in the Northeast now despite not having much understanding myself on how that happened. This thread illustrates that there are still latitudinal tensions within the nation that are due for another passionate melt-down given the tinniest spark. I am not sure when that will be or where I will be when that happens but I will know I will wake up with grey pajamas on when it does.
Funny guy you are.
Cher? Really? Wow? 
pssst— meeting’s next Tuesday. I’ll PM you the exact time and place, but bring your rifle, your dodge ball, enough Coke and jerkey to last for a week and at least two purple or yellow IZOD cardigans; we’ll explain when you get there.
PPS- I stand corrected- I knew Cher grew up in California but I thought she was born in New Orleans. That’s just where her (Arkansan) mother met her (Armenian) father- they’d already moved before she was born.
Interesting post. What if “The Spark” is religious in nature? The Creationists Fundies vs. those who are not? Would you side with them over your adopted home? Lets just say the core of the rebellion ends up mostly in the South (but not the Rt 95 corridor) and the Mid-West. Would you side with them just for geographical reasons?
I just can’t see a geographical divide occurring again, I think it would have to be religious based and those Rebs would be looking to do physical harm to proud and good Southerners like Sampiro (as a homosexual) and horrible agnostics/atheists (like me) and many others on this board.
Got to ask, are you at all serious about Cher? If so, why?
Wow. That’s really some comic book version of the South you’ve constructed in your head. You could write for Hollywood!
Perhaps he’s proud that Cher is not a Southerner. That alone is a big mark in favor of the South.
I suspect this whole Southern Pride phenomenon is more relevant to the Deep South. As noted, growing up on the fringes of the South in West Texas, we barely thought of ourselves as Southern, but then you know what Texans are like. My mother was from Northwest Arkansas, and we spent a lot of time visiting relatives there; still never picked up any real sense of Southern, although there were more Confederate flags than in West Texas, which had zilch.
But my best friend in Thailand is a gentleman who was born and bred in South Carolina; one of the most decent people I’ve ever known, he seems fine with the South. I’ve known other Deep Southerners – from Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana – all great people, so I’m willing to admit that there’s nothing inherently evil about being Southern per se.
Sure it is, I specifically said it would not be regional. I don’t think it would end up a South vs. North thing. You can choose to read my post however you like, but that is not what I said.
The Compact was a document that recognized the government as an agreement among the governed and was initiated from among the governed. (Regardless whether the story I heard that the Separatists engineered it to consolidate their power or the story that MichaelQReilly heard that it was an effort by the other settlers to prevent one group from wielding too much power, it still arose from the people aboard the ship. In contrast, the House of Burgesses was established by changes to the rules of the colony as set forth by owners of the Virginia Company in London and was (originally) a top-down institution that included the governor and six people picked by the governor along with representatives of the largest plantations. There is a fundamental difference with a clear tie from the Compact to the U.S. Constitution while the House of Burgesses looks remarkably like the unreformed British Parliament. Nothing wrong with the Burgesses, but they did not set any precedents.)
I have never seen King’s Mountain or Cowpens downrated anywhere. They just about always get more play than crossing the Delaware and Trenton. (First) Saratoga is a bigger deal because it resulted in the loss of an entire British army and led directly to French recognition of the U.S. The Southern campaign led to Yorktown but each battle was incremental in the campaign and of the two named, neither resulted in the loss of an entire army.
As to the cities, New York only got a brief treatment to demonstrate the brilliance that Washington (of Virginia) always displayed in defeat, with no special emphasis on the campaign.
Well, you are changing the goalposts, here. Why could they not have found actors who could do New England Accents to represent the folks around Boston if it was such a terrible thing to have the Virginia delegates sound like they were from Chicago? (I will also note that few people portrayed as Southern rednecks were given Southern drawls. The more common accent used was the Midlands dialect that stretches from Pennsylavania, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois down through the Northern sections of Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. This reflects the attitudes toward “hillbillies” more than Southerners, per se, although I have already agreed with you that the arts and entertainment establishments have focused on portraying many Southerners as dumb yokels.
And you still seem to be implying that the historians favored the North throughout 400 years of history simply as though it was some sort of conspiracy. On the one hand, you have not succeeded in persuading me that the South has been neglected by historians, but if it is as you described, it would appear to be simply a matter of parochialism, with folks writing about their own regions. So where are the Southerrn historians? Did the Northern historians lock them up in closets, burn their manuscripts, take away their quills, pens, and typewriters?
I would agree that the entertainment industry has subjected the South to a lot of prejudicial stereotypes, but I do not see the same thing as true regarding the presentation of actual history.
Maybe. But I really don’t think you get it if you keep saying “Confederate flag.” What, specifically, are you refering to? The so-called Confederate Battle Flag? The Stars & Bars? The Bonnie Blue Flag? The flag of Texas?
You seem to have no idea how much this gets under the skin of those of us who know the differences. More than “Bless your heart” gets under yours.