Have there been any cases of cops or govt personnel who were sovcits? Any real-life Ron Swansons?
I can only provide an anecdote (which isn’t worth much but eh). A coworker of mine was saying some SovCit garbage as a “fun fact” sort of thing. Specifically, he mentioned how it was funny that we talk about requiring a license to drive when the federal government doesn’t have such a requirement. He was serious about it, and was basically saying that driver’s licenses were legally meaningless.
I pointed out to him that the federal government does not require a license, but the state government does. That’s why he has a Washington State driver’s license and not a United States license. He didn’t push back, and I think he got what I was saying, but still, it was pretty credulous.
Note that we WORK IN STATE GOVERNMENT.
Now, is he a full-blown SovCit? I don’t think so. I know him pretty well, I’ve worked with him for years and while he is prone to believe in conspiracies, there’s a difference between being gullible and falling for some of their claims, and then basing your life around them. But people are people, and folks in the government are people, and people believe all kinds of crazy shit.
I don’t see how someone could be a full-blown SovCit, and actually try to live in the way that Sovereign Citizen philosophy/“legal theory” says you should live, and work in government. That would be the equivalent of a barbecue food critic (of all BBQ places in a city) who is a vegan. Your philosophy literally won’t allow you to do your job. You have to either live life in a way counter to your philosophy, or quit, or just not do your job until you’re terminated.
Ron Swanson wasn’t a SovCit. He believed that the government was legitimate. He just thought it overreached too many times and so was trying to slow things down from the inside. I remember one episode where it was revealed that his house was in violation of many codes because he just did whatever he felt like, and then so many of his renovations had to be undone or changed. He was extremely unhappy, but he did go along and do it. A SovCit would never do that, would refuse to listen, declare that they had no authority in their house, and maybe even use force to “defend their home”.
That’s the difference between a curmudgeon and someone who is actually dangerous.
I used Ron as an example because I think he’s what the SCs see themselves as.
Perhaps not SovCits in the most traditional sense, but I would submit that so-called Constitutional Sheriffs are at least adjacent, and in reality far, far closer to dangerous SovCit mentality than I am comfortable with for an elected LEO position.
Well, they might want to go with different license plates then.
IIRC there were some Jan. 6 defendants who were cops or U.S. military personnel, either current or retired, and in their court proceedings they spouted some SC nonsense. Don’t remember their names, though.
I hold more to Madison than to Mao. The authority for the system of law in a democracy comes from the consent of the governed. Of course, those who wield that authority, especially in the United States, are likely to be (heavily) armed.
Oh, I agree. That’s why I added the bit about revolt. But I described it purely as a practical matter. One’s opinion doesn’t matter if the guys with the guns, along with every democratic institution and the majority of the people, see it differently. So, shut up, SovCits!
How a Sovereign Citizen sees themself:
How everyone else sees them:
I bet this guy is one:
Romana, the Queen of Canada has left the building she and her followers were occupying in a town in Saskatchewan.
Where will they turn up next? The world wonders…
This particular loon stands out in this movement for one rather interesting (at least to me) bit of law. To immigrate to Canada, don’t you have to pledge (a) to obey the laws of Canada, and (b) allegiance to the actual monarch of Canada?
Well, the BBC item notes that she came to Canada as a teenager. I imagine her parents immigrated, and she was just brought along.
To the best of my knowledge (my ex was an immigrant from the USA), no pledge of any sort is required to immigrate. There are forms and fees and interviews, basically. I understand that now, there is also a language test, to prove proficiency in either English or French. Note that my ex came to Canada before that requirement was put in place, but she would have aced the test in English anyway.
The part about allegiance to the monarch comes when one becomes a naturalized Canadian citizen. Contrary to what some people believe, you cannot just immigrate to Canada, and promptly start proceedings to take out citizenship. There is a waiting period. I believe it is three years, but it may be more. At any rate, that’s when you would swear or affirm such; at your citizenship ceremony.
First though, you would have to gain Permanent Residency by getting more than 67 points on the application. Then wait 6-8 months for approval ( unless you are fast tracked for having special skills). Then spend at least 3/5 years resident in Canada.
It may not be easy to get to 67 points.
Yes, the point system. There’s that too; thanks for the addition to my remarks.
I probably would not score high enough. Good thing I’m already here!
A Jan. 6 rioter who represented himself during a jury trial and advanced sovereign citizen arguments that a federal judge described as “bulls—” and “gobbledygook” was found guilty Tuesday and ordered into government custody.
1% law, 99% jive.
Wow. I’ve been under the impression that your bog-standard sovcit doesn’t have an interest in the government. Why would he even CARE who gets inaugurated?
By participating in the protests, isn’t he creating joinder?
About 11km East.
Meanwhile, the guy who initially invited them to stay in the town, and who was arrested last month on assault charges has failed to turn up for his court date. A warrant for his arrest has been issued. What are the odds that he’s a sovereign citizen?
Yeah, I’m beginning to think their political philosophy may not be coherent.