The island in dispute, as BBC sums it up: Perejil island[ul][li]200m off the Moroccan shore in the Straits of Gibraltar[]Less than 1 km in diameter[]Rocky and uninhabited[]Visited by herdsmen who take their goats to graze[]Named after the wild parsley which grows there[]Perejil means “parsley” in Spanish[]Known in Morocco as Leila[/ul]Morocco, you were stupid for occupying that dumb rock in the first place. Had you just asked the stupid island for Christmas, Spain would have probably thrown in a couple of free goats.[/li]
Spain, you’re an idiot for reclaiming a rock of less than a kilometer in diameter by great military force, thus making yourself look like a bunch of pricks.
I don’t care whom this stupid island belongs to. I suggest you both clear out by 9 AM tomorrow morning, when the fearsome Liechtenstein marine force will blow it to smithereens by means of a semi-large katapult and couple of spitballs.
For what I am about to say, I need you to understand: I’m just performing a service here. Someone needs to do it and I’m willing to take that bullet. Believe me, I don’t take pleasure in it.
Times like these make me wish I was in command of an elite group of commando-ninjas who fly around the world on a retrofitted 777 that launches manned heli-pods to just fuck with people who are being morons.
But do I have an elite group of commando-ninjas, or a 777, or even a singly manned heli-pod? No, of course not. Santa Claus, thou hast slighted me.
In retalliation we might send a crack force of a hundred thousand pissed up teenagers to take over Spain’s beaches and play particularly bad dance music at them?
I’ve been in Spain since the whole thing started, and I was getting worried that I was missing some kind of important context thing in the whole thing.
Thank you, Coldfire, for clarifying that it really is as silly as I thought on first glance.
(FWIW - the majority of Spaniards who’ve expressed an opinion on it within my earshot have agreed with you.)
OK, as usual I will play the dissenting voice. Relations between Spain and Morocco have gone from bad to worse mostly on account of Morocco. Morocco keeps poking to see how much they can get away with and there have been a number of diplomatic incidents. I think it is in the interest of stability to let Morocco know they are not going to get away with such acts because otehrwise you could easily see larger acts of the same nature in Ceuta, Melilla, Alhucemas, Chafarinas, etc.
Spain acted correctly (and with the full support of NATO and the EU), not so much to reclaim a small island but to defend the rule of law and make it clear to Morocco that this type of stuff will not be tolerated. I would compare this to the British expedition to the Falklands (are they really that valuable?) or to the US airplane incident in Hainan island. The US in refusing to apologise was defending the correct position which is “we did nothing wrong and we assert our right to keep doing it”. Or the incident with Lybia in the Gulf of Sirta some years ago. Sometimes you have to take a stand to make a point.
Morocco has been extremely difficult to deal with lately and they are poking and testing the waters continually. The Spanish government has bent over backwards to please them (more than I would have) and Morocco is still belligerent. Every day you hear in the news members of the Spanish government repeating and stressing how much they want good relations with Morocco. Morocco, for internal reasons, has decided to follow a policy of confrontation and I believe it is wise to make them know there are limits to what they can get away with. Appeasement would be asking for more of the same.
The claim about Spain using too much force is silly. You use whatever force you need to accomplish what you want cleanly. There were just a handful of Moroccan soldiers there. It would have been crazy to send a small number of Spanish troops and let them shoot it out. Instead, they sent larger numbers and never engaged the Moroccans who gave up without a fight in view that they were offered a free meal and a ride home.
Morocco is playing for their home audience and you have to be careful how far you let them go. This is similar in many ways to Argentina and the failed invasion of the Falklands. They were trying to cover up internal problems.
One of the big sticky points between Morocco and Spain is Morocco’s lack of control of people crossing illegally into Spain. Not only Moroccans but people from all Africa cross by the hundreds every day. The Spanish coast guard is overwhelmed by this tide of illegals arriving in the south of Spain and in the Canaries. Many are picked up but Morocco will not accept them back unless Spain can prove they are Morrocan nationals, many of which are not. Many drown at sea and bodies continually keep washing up on Spanish beaches. Morocco does nothing to stop this.
Morocco’s deploring the use of force by Spain is disingenuous. Come on. They started it and now that they are losing the condemn the use of force. Yeah. Right.
As the article states, the island has belonged to Spain since the 17th century. You may think it is worthless but it is for Spain to decide if they want to keep it. In any case, Morocco was trying to make a point and Spain now have made their point. For once Spain is right.
I have to agree with sailor here. There may be a risk in attempting to retake the island with minimal force in that it might encourage the Moroccans to defend themselves (“hey! they only sent a gunboat! we can take them!”). Send overwhelming forces and it’s a two-fold message: one, you don’t stand a chance so go quietly, and two, we’re taking this very seriously so don’t try it again.
I think the Spanish acted quickly and without fuss or violence, and in that respect it was the correct move.
sailor: Go too far on principle and you end up with the Falklands again, or Vietnam: People dying for worthless land just to preserve some notion of ‘national pride’ (aka governmental popularity) or ‘we-can’t-stop-now’ (once you’re in for a thousand dead, why not a million?). Dying over freedom of speech or the ability to stay at home a Sunday is worth it: Those principles are fundamental to civilized life, as opposed to governmental barbarism. But killing the best minds of a generation just to show another tinhorn dictator that we aren’t pussies? At some point, rationality must prevail over pride.
For Morocco, taking the island would be a big nationalistic publicity stunt and nothing more. They had already scheduled a big circus show. On the same day it was retaken by Spain a visit by Moroccan officials and news reporters was planned. Obviously, it had to be cancelled. Morocco is playing its own cards here.
The island may not be of much value to Spain in itself but the location (location, location) probably is as it also gives rights in the surrounding areas.
The island, like other Spanish possessions in northern Africa, has belonged to Spain from time immemorial and long before Morocco existed as a kingdom or country. Nobody disputes this. Morocco now claims it was ceded to them at the termination of the Spanish protectorate over northern Morocco in 1956 but there is no support for this.
Spain has said repeatedly it is willing to discuss this and any other issues so, it is clear Morocco does not want the island per se but seeks to gain by a confrontation with Spain. They were looking for a confrontation, not for the island. Spain is wise in not letting Morocco get away with a fait accompli as it would greatly increase the danger of Morocco attempting something similar in other Spanish northern African possessions.
NATO and the EU have pretty much backed Spain all the way. Only France (Morocco’s #1 trading partner) expressed any reservations.
I just saw on TV an interview with the Spanish Foreign Minister, a woman who has been on the job less than a week, and I was very impressed by her. At the beginning she was asked some quetions about herself and about having overcome breast cancer and I was impressed by her personality and insight and how articulate and intelligent she is. Not many politicians anywhere come across like this. She exudes calmness and reassurance. They talked at length about the Moroccan conflict and she was calm and non-confrontational towards Morocco.
Morocco have called the Spanish reaction a “declaration of war”. It seems Morocco is trying to build a confrontation with Spain over this or anything else and Spain doesn’t want to play along.
I agree with your conclusion, but the question has to be why?
Spain may not be a major military power, but referring to the ever useful CIA world factbook I notice it’s got 4 times the military expenditure of Morocco, and that’s before it even looks to support from any of its neighbours and allies. What the hell can Morocco hope to achieve with this?
Derleth, I disagree 100% with your assesment. First, no one has died in this incident. Second, Moroccco has been acting up for some time now and by stopping them now it could well be that we are avoiding greater confrontations in the future.
The UK, in reatking the Falklands, were asserting the wider principle that you should not be rewarded by getting to keep what you took by force. In my book they did the right thing but, in any case, it is their decision whether they want to spend the effort to retake them or not. What is certain is that they have the right.
You might think this island is worth shit but if Spain decides they want to keep it, then it is their right to fight for it.
I might think your lawn ornaments are hideous but I will defend your right to not have them stolen by some neigborhood punk. If the neighborhood punk is arrested for stealing your lawn ornaments I would not say “well, they were hideous anyway so, who cares”. The point is not your hideous lawn ornaments, the point is whether we defend the principle of private property or not.
Yep. It happened during the wedding of the new, young, king. Since he took over relations with Spain have taken a sharp turn for the worse.
>> What the hell can Morocco hope to achieve with this?
Internal, nationalistic, support in a country where people risk their lives daily to cross the sea and get to Spain so they can make a living. Many die in their attempts.
It is the same thing Argentina was looking for with the Falklands or China with the Hainan incident or Irak with their stance. It is internal support they are looking for.
sailor: Nobody has died (yet) because Morocco acted rationally instead of fighting Spain over principle. In the Falklands, neither side was willing to make that concession to rationality and people died.
And the analogy of the lawn ornament thief is fundmentally flawed: Nobody would die in that incident unless one or both of the parties was psychotic. When people get into property tiffs, they tie up the courts. When governments get into property tiffs, they kill people.
sailor, what if your hideous lawn ornament is in my back yard?
Morocco’s getting all Galtieri and stirring the pot, and got rightfully spanked. But what Spain’s has been doing at the Gibraltar border for years is just as bad.
The Spanish government looks like it has been competing at a veritable Tomatina of hypocrisy.
I’m not a pro-colonial type, but how are Ceuta and Melilla different to Gibraltar? Here’s what the Spanish foreign minister said:
The people of Gibraltar overwhelmingly want to remain British. I don’t know why Blair’s talking to the Spanish government.
>> I’m not a pro-colonial type, but how are Ceuta and Melilla different to Gibraltar?
In many ways . We can open a thread if you like and I will be happy to discuss those issues and learn more about them. How Spain’s “hypocrisy” with Gibraltar has any bearing on this is beyond me. That’s like saying your lawn ornament was rightfully stolen because I heard you tell a lie. You can be a liar and stilll have the right to your hideous lawn ornaments. Again. Open a thread about Gibraltar and we can discuss that there but it would be a total hijack of this thread.