Gibraltar, the UK and Spain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputed_status_of_Gibraltar

What should British policy be? What should Spanish policy be? I doubt it’ll ever become a shooting war, but this kind of dispute doesn’t always end well.

(bolding mine): Spoilsport!
As it is, the British have sort of accepted the policy of giving up imperial possessions, but Gibraltar still has a major strategic value. I think some sort of eventual joint sovereignty or permanent UK base with Spanish rule will come into being, but with the increasing importance of the Far East, I do not see Albion giving up control of Gibraltar until the UK is no longer a major power.

As it is, the British will probably have conquered Spain by then, by the simple expidient of migrating in large number.:smiley:

I’d like to note, for the record, that Gibraltar has been British longer than it was Spanish.

Spain could put together an Armada, and with modern weather forecasting technology things might turn out differently this time!

Seriously, though, what is so terribly wrong with the status quo?

Spaniard here-

What should Britain do? Protect the rights of the citizens of one of their territories, of course.

What should Spain do? Understand that the democratic will of the people of Gibraltar surpasses big time any random treaty from two centuries ago.

Incredibly obvious, right? However there’s this whole culture war going on in Spain between right and left, and the centre and the provinces, the citizens of Gibraltar are the unwitting innocent bystanders of. The recovery of Gibraltar’s rock has been for some reason a sort of symbolic issue for the right-leaning political parties in Spain since forever, and the current administration seems to have decided to use them again as a distraction to get attention off from things like the growing unemployment rates and the attempts at secession.

Sad and pathetic, to me at least, but that’s this country in a nutshell.

We should invite the Catalonians and Basques to open an embassy in London.

What if Gibraltar was granted its independence? It would then be a small nation on Spain’s border (like Andorra) rather than an outpost of another major power. Would this satisfy Spain’s unhappiness with the situation?

An independent Gibraltar would be free to negotiate a treaty with the United Kingdom in which Britain agrees to assist Gibraltar financially in exchange for military basing rights. It would essentially be the same situation as exists now except it would be a bilateral agreement between two sovereign nations.

I don’t know that the people in Gibraltar would want to abandon their citizenship to begin with.

The feeling that the British should give Gibraltar back runs deep and long. Jules Verne certainly thought they should. He was French, of course, and not directly involved, but it bothered his sense of what was right. He satirized the British tenacious hold on Gibraltar in two works, Hector Servadac (“Off on a Comet”) and the short story Gil Braltar .

Why would anyone care what Verve thought about this?

Plus at the time he lived, of all the rich pickings he had, he chose to be pissed off about Gibraltar

The Catalonians already opened one in London and one in Edimburgh (among other locations); the Basques have had more sense, or perhaps less leeches in need of a government salary.

I agree with Sr Siete’s analysis, with two addendums:

The mere amount of Spanish “black money”, much of it owned by politicians, using Gibraltar as a tax haven, means there wouldn’t be any kind of military attack on the position even if the Rock didn’t have the military power of the United Kingdom behind it.

What should all three parties do? Stop acting like 3yos in a sandbox. Andorra, Luxembourgh, Monaco or San Marino don’t feel the need to insult their bigger neighbors, the bigger neighbors don’t feel the need to growl at the smaller one, let’s all try to show some civilization for once, ok?

Depends on your definitions. Either it had never been Spanish, it had been Spanish since the 1260s, or it had been Spanish since before the hairless monkeys reached the Peninsula. I’d like to know which definition you’re using, because by none of mine has it been British longer than Spanish.

Yeah. I’m not expert, but it seems to me that the most important opinion would be that of the people currently living in Gibraltar.

Nah, we Catalans just have this thing for grandstanding. Like children calling for constant attention. Basques are way more straight in that.

I’m sorry, but how did exactly Gibraltar insult anybody? They put some cement piles along their coast? That’s the big deal to you? Also, they are technically still part of the British Empire, not an independent state.

Maño you’re quoting the wrong part.

Ah, now you’ve corrected it. The bit about the concrete blocks isn’t an insult, but the whole attitude about and behind it, is. Other neighbors collaborate, why not Gibraltar and us?

Same as the Falklands, let the people who live there decide. Much like the Falklands there seems to be very few that wish to separate from the UK.

I’d call it Spanish from 1516-1704, and English/British from 1704-Present day.

What attitude? The fact that they got pissed off when we started slowing the pace of traffic to a crawling halt using that fishing nonsense as a cheap excuse? I honestly want to know, because I watch the news about it and I still don’t see anything other than a big, steaming pile of crap from our side.

No, they’re a British Overseas Territory. The British Empire, as such, doesn’t exist anymore.

When Spain gives Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco, then they can talk to Britain about Gibraltar. :wink:

Yes, you’re right. Thanks for the correction.