I loved Princess Mononoke; it is one of my favorite movies of all time. When people told me they thought Spirited Away (made by the same guy) was even better, it became an instant must-see movie for me. So I finally saw it and experienced perhaps the biggest movie disappointment ever for a film that I still consider to be decent.
As in Mononoke, Spirited Away was a splendidly imagined world, visually speaking. Spirited Away seemed to be even more fantasty-oriented, which is perfectly fine; I loved the creativity displayed here.
Where Mononoke succeeds and Spirited Away fails is in the creation of a truly resonant world in which one can really immerse one’s self in. Most of the characters were trite and superficial, and the dialogue often felt like it came from a poorly translated Japanese role-playing video game (for example, the Kohaku River revelation had me laughing out loud at the repetition and tone that Haku and Chihiro used). Perhaps the dubbing/translation is somewhat to blame for this; Chihiro had one of the most false-sounding voices I’ve ever heard It grated. She sped through her lines like a shy fourth grader being asked to read in front of the class. Most of the supporting characters were paper-thin, such as the Big Sister Lin and Gruff Wise Man Yumagio (the boiler room guy) who seemed to exist solely for Chihiro’s benefit; I didn’t get a sense of their investment in the world, as I did with the supporting characters in Mononoke, just their roles.
The plot was very intriguing at the beginning of the movie, and it captured the strangeness of the world as it must have felt to Chihiro. But then it started getting wonky and random. I mean, what the hell was Haku doing stealing that Golden Seal in the first place? I suppose he may have wanted to gain power to be free of Yummaba, but isn’t Xenobia a good witch? Wouldn’t stealing from a good witch be a bad thing? While I think it was refreshing that the movie decided to stay away from the Big Climactic Final Showdown ending, all the dramatic tension had basically left when Haku wakes up and Chihiro meets Granny. It’s an interesting spin on things, I suppose, but the denouement just winded up being melodramatic. And speaking of melodrama, the film seemed to rely a lot on the ridiculous semi-romance between Haku and Chihiro that was somehow Pure Love, which incidentally solves one of the bigger challenges presented in the film (Haku’s sickness). Sorry, I just didn’t buy it (the Pure Love bit). Their interaction depicted in most of the film consisted of Chihiro bawling and Haku basically saying “There there”.
I realize that Spirited Away is geared more toward children than Princess Mononoke, but I really don’t understand how it can be a better movie. It doesn’t come close. The immersion into the characters’ world was just so much thinner and the melodrama really hurt it. It was gorgeous to behold and very creative (which is why I like the movie more than I dislike it), and there were some great scenes (like the Stink Monster, and No-Face in the Bathhouse), but overall it just didn’t do much for me. It seemed kind of soulless.
I’m not a child, and I liked Spirited Away a LOT better than I liked Princess Mononoke. Spirited Away had a consistent sense of wonder, Princess Mononoke was more of a standard kid’s adventure story, and only had little bursts of wonder, like the tiny forest spirits.
I liked them both, but I wasn’t watching either with a critical eye. I guess that compared to most contemporary Hollywood/Disney dreck they are so wonderful that I don’t look for the flaws. And they both captivated my kids (although the beginning had me worried that it would be too scary for my daughter) and that is always a good thing. I will try to watch it again with subtitles instead of dubbed.
If by wonder you mean fantastical imagery, then I think you’re right; Spirited Away definitely leaned more in that direction. However, the “wonder” of Mononoke stood out more to me because the world was so much more immersive, and its characters were not just roles, but rooted in the world, and their actions reflected this.
By the way, Mononoke is like a “standard kid’s adventure story”? :eek:
Please tell me where I can find more of these creative, tightly-written, epic children’s tales that show more intelligence and nuance than 99% of Hollywood’s efforts.
I loved both Mononoke & Spirited Away, but IMO Castle in the Sky kicks both their arses.
I saw CitS about 12 years ago on terrestrial TV. I loved it. I waited & waited for it to come out on DVD. now it has, I got it 2 weeks ago and its every bit as good as I remember. Its about the only film i’ve EVER seen that hasnt let me down after such a gap, especially seeing as I was a kid 12 years ago.
Granted, I was in awe of Spirited Away both times I seen it, and the first was through Quicktime player on a 4"x4" screen.
can’t really see your problem with it. my brother loved it, and he generally hates anime.
I didn’t think Princess Monoke was all that great. I can’t really tell you why. I guess I’ll never be a great movie reviewer. As for your complaints about Spirited Away, they are true if you look at the movie critically. I think though that the whole movie had a certain dreamlike quality. Like dreams, the “depth” of the movie fails under intense scrutiny. Like dreams, all the characters really do exsist purely for Chichiro’s benifit.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie but didn’t Haku steal the golden seal while under the power of the evil witch?
If that’s the case (I haven’t seen the English dub), then that’s a real shame because Rumi Hiiragi was absolutely wonderful in the original. Voice acting is taken very seriously around here, and talented voice actors get a lot of respect.
I liked Spirited Away better, too. This may seem odd coming from someone who is such a big Miyazaki fan.
He’s got an eye for the fantastic, that one. Spirited Away is so fanciful, like Alice in Wonderland - that’s what touched me about that film that made it rise above the grittiness and morality (Miyazaki is a rabid environmentalist) of Mononoke.
His best movie - speaking of rabid environmentalism - is Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind. You just can’t go wrong with a bunch of nifty flying machines. I can’t count Lupin III and the Castle of Cagliostro (the greatest animated film of all time) because even though he directed it, those are not his characters.
I too think Mononoke is the better film and one of the 2-3 best I have ever seen. However SA is also great and I have come to appreciate it more and more with repeat viewings.
Several of your complaints are specific to the dub. For instance in the sub Zeniba briefly explains why Haku stole the seal; for some reason they changed it in the dub. The moment where Chihiro discovers Haku’s identitiy is also much less cloying in the sub than in the dub. So I suggest you watch the sub and see if it changes your mind.
I disagree that Lin and Kamaji are shallow; certainly they help Chihiro but that’s not their only purpose in the film. For instance there is the relationship between Kamaji and the soot-balls. Also check out Lin when Yubaba congratulates Sen for helping the Stink Spirit; she is clearly jealous. And certainly Yubaba, No-face and Haku are not superficial characters; they have their agendas which differ from Sen’s.
The ending is indeed anti-climatic but I think that’s appropriate. The film is not about a great battle to overthrow Yubaba but Chihiro’s journey of self-discovery.
From your OP I am guessing you haven’t seen Miyazaki’s other films like Totoro and Kiki which are even more oriented towards children. They are fine films in their own right but clearly not nearly as complex as Mononoke. Spirited Away falls somewhere in between.
BTW I have to disagree that Miyazaki is a “rabid environmentalist” thought there is an environmental subtext to most of his films. In particular Mononoke is not a film with a simple environmental message. The films is partially sympathetic to both Lady Eboshi and the animals. The “message” is about the virtue of compromise and self-restraint.
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Kiki had nothing but a flying broom and a talking cat, yet it was more magical, and more immersive than either of these two. i don’t know why.
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I’m another big Laputa fan. My favorite of Miyazaki’s work.
I’m also an anime fan and watch the subbed versions over the dubbed anyday. Love the Japanese language and culture. Windwalker, I’d suggest trying the subbed version and see what you think.
I concur- try the sub. I avoid dubbed translations like the plague. It feels like too much of the atmosphere is lost.
As for the differences, keep in mind that Mononoke was made for an adult audience while Spirited Away is something that both adults can kids can become immersed in. This is largely done via flattening the supporting characters slightly (though not too much) and removing most traces of overt menace from the film. Perhaps that’s what you’re picking up on.
Me? I prefer Kiki’s Delivery Service, for the same illogical reason given by shijinn.
One more for always watching the sub. I can easily point to a dozen bad dubs of good anime sitting on my shelf and even more if I get to include other foreign films.
I guess I’m in the minority but I couldn’t stand Spirited Away. Part of the problem is that I just don’t like anime (why is it that no matter how realistic the backgrounds are the human figures all have that same stupid, wide-eyed, Disney face? It takes me right out of the story). I tought SA would be different because of all the good reviews but I thought it was just a confusing mess with really bad dialogue. I tried to watch Princess Mononoke once too but I couldn’t get through it. I nebver have any idea what’s going on in these movies and the faces really just annoy me to no end.
In my opinion, this was intentional. Chihiro wasn’t part of the spirit world. Chihiro might have been able to see or hear it, but she couldn’t understand it. A major theme of the story was Chihiro’s attempts to cope with characters when she had only the most superficial understanding of their motives. And because Chihiro was our viewpoint into this world, we had to share her ignorance.
My guess is that the spirit world was intended as a metaphor for the adult world. In both cases, children are led around by creatures who are acting for reasons that aren’t explained to the child, who has to try to keep up and cope as best it can.
