But it would be helpful if posters would tell you if what they’ve boxed is actual spoiler info or just speculation. With some TV shows, some viewers don’t even want to read the speculation of others, and want all speculation boxed.
I don’t mind reading what others are thinking and what theories they’ve come up with, but I don’t want any real spoilers (especially with Survivor and Lost). I enjoy the week-to-week viewing too much to be spoiled.
To expand on something twickster said: I’m on the East Coast, so I get to watch shows “first,” as it were. There have been times when I’ve watched something, come here to discuss it right after, and had West Coasters come into the thread and get angry that we didn’t spoiler-box info till after they’d seen it. I think as soon as a show has aired on the East Coast, it’s fair game for discussion without spoiler boxes. Is that the general consensus? It would be a little ridiculous to go on for two hours, boxing all our posts.
I’d like to add one - if you’re reading a thread with “Spoiler” in the title, you should still use the spoiler tag if you’re talking about something else.
Example: If we are discussing “Finding Nemo” in a thread titled “Finding Nemo: Spoilers within” and a poster tangenitally comments on the ending of Iron Giant without using a spoiler, that ain’t cool.
I see. I still disagree though. The confusion can easily be avoided bv saying that your post contains speculation. Most people who use the boxes that way already do that. But I do agree that spoiler boxes are not neccessary for speculation.
Actual spoilers should always be in boxes. If you skip over the boxes, the handicap in communication is entirely on your side. And I don’t think many people do that anyway.
Do you think you are more annoyed because of spoiler box for an episode of a TV series from last season than I would be because of that spoiler in plain sight when I’ve been waiting for the DVD box of that show for a year? Have I lost my right to be surprised just because I waited so long? If spoiler boxes cost you money or caused you pain, I’d agree. But in my opinion they are just (possibly) mildly annoyances that allow me to read cafe society even though I haven’t seen every TV show or movie I’m interested in yet.
:dubious:
:eek:
…
Gilligan got off the island?
When the hell did that happen?
Here’s the big problem. There is and can be no agreement on what constitutes “recent” or “reasonable.” Lots and lots of us don’t catch these things early, or even in the first run, or even when the DVD is released. If I want to watch season 3 because I haven’t gotten around to it late, I don’t want you to tell me how it ends, and I think it reasonable that you have the common courtesy to put it in a spoiler box.
Obviously if I go into a thread with a Spoiler warning then I have no one but myself to blame. And possibly they get overused.
Still, I would far, far prefer that people overuse them than underuse them. I weigh the two sides this way: the completely trivial issue of appearance on a web page versus the critical issue of enjoyment of a piece of entertainment.
In other words, I almost completely disagree with your complaint in your first point. There really is no reasonable point at which it’s right and proper to spoil anything. Everybody is young once and everybody comes to everything for the first time. I don’t want you spoiling that for me or for anybody.
Use more spoilers!
I think there are some excellent points raised here, and I think we probably need some official “guidelines”. Us CS mods will discuss and see what we can come up with.
I do think that the time frame is more complex than just whether it’s been aired on TV. Many people use TiVo or an equivalent to see the show later; people living outside the US might not see a US show for months (and vice versa).
Similarly, with movies, some people may wait until they’re out on DVD or VHS or something, or wait until a second run to go to the cheaper theatres, or whatever.
So, I think that the time frame is not as tight as you’re suggesting.
The easiest solution, of course, is to put the term “Spoilers” in the thread title. Then there’s no ambiguity, and people who want to avoid them will avoid that thread.
I also think that we do get a fair number of younger members – teens, college students, etc. – who may not have seen or read some of older stuff. I’d hate to have the surprise ending of an Agatha Christie ruined, for example, just because it’s old. (I believe And Then There Were None is still read in schools, for instance.)
I do think we can promulgate some guidelines that will help everyone be more comfortable. The basic concept, it seems to me: if you’ve got any doubt whatsoever, use the spoilers tag or use the term “spoilers” in the thread title!
I agree with this. I don’t mind spoiler boxes and though I’m probably in the minority, I don’t see what all the complaints are about. The example you gave of MsRobyn’s post is something you might agree doesn’t need a spoiler. However, I’ve been in threads where a hijack starts about whether a post like hers needed a spoiler or not. Some people will say it does and some people will say it doesn’t. To me, that’s more of a pain, than just letting a person use their own discretion about what needs to be boxed or not. I’d rather triple click than sift through a bunch of off topic posts because it’s difficult for people to agree on what constitutes a spoiler.
MaxTheVool and Dooku, those are very important points.
Last year someone posted the series ending for Buffy in an unlabeled spoiler box in an Angel thread. When people complained, that poster insisted that it was OK because the thread title said spoiler and he had used a spoiler box. But of course in an Angel thread, people only expect Angel spoilers, and boxed or not. A labeled box would have avoided that problem.
I don’t think the effort necessary to view them is the point here. These teasers are not made by the same people who make the episodes, but by network people who don’t care about the story. They just show the most interesting looking scenes from next episode without thinking about the way these scenes are presented in the episode. An example from season 2 of 24:
A teaser showed Jack and Mason on an airplane discussing who should stay on the plane and die and who shoul jump out. In the following episode, it was a moajor plot point who would be on the plane at all. Half the show was about that including several false leads. All that suspense was lost to people who had watched the teaser or read about it in the thread. Luckily it was boxed! (I think)
I don’t know if the teasers for Lost are as bad, but why not be cautious?
What the heck is an “actual spoiler”, anyway? If an ending is given away, I can see that possibly ruining a show/movie/book/whatever for someone. Same thing for revealing a plot twist. In my opinion, nothing else should count. Who are the main characters? Not a spoiler. Revealing the overall plot? Not a spoiler (if one doesn’t know the gist of the story, why would one be interested in the first place…?) 90% of what gets thrown into spoiler boxes around here I see no possible potential for spoilage. And if one is so worried about a story being ruined that reading anything about it would destroy one’s enjoyment, then why hang around discussion threads until one has experienced the story in the first place?
Then again, I’ve never had foreknowledge ruin a story for me, so maybe I’m just weird.
I read lots of books and watch some movies without knowing anything about them but that they were recommended to me by someone, often on these boards. Most of the time I think I enjoy them more because of that. Of course in threads about that particular movie or book, the plot and some other details must be revealed to make a discussion possible. In a thread whith spoiler in the title, everything can be revealed. I just don’t read any of those threads until I am ready to be spoiled or have finished the book/movie.
But in a more general thread like “What’s your favorite movie”, as little as possible should be revealed. In my opinion that means only a very general description of the plot whithout boxes, specific plot points only in boxes and plot twists and endings not at all or with an additional warning.
I think this thread deserves a bump. I’ve seen a lot of misused spoilers recently, and we could all use a refresher.
Several times in the last week, I’ve seen spoilers posted, but with absolutely no indication of what movie was being spoiled. Not to point fingers, but here is an example of what I’m talking about. You have to actually click on the spoiler to actually find out what movie is being spoiled, which sort of makes the point of the spoiler unneccessary.
When you start a new thread, make sure you space down a few lines
.
.
.
.
.
.
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before starting your spoiler.
That way, the spoiler will not be revealed accidentally to somebody who hovers the mouse cursor over the thread title. Loach brought up this problem, and I believe the line spaces will solve the problem. I don’t know how many lines it takes to do the trick.
Clever.
I unthinkingly clicked on that one and would have been PO’d, but since I have no interest in seeing the movie mentioned, I don’t really care. You’re right though, it should have been presented better.
I caught myself the other day using a spoiler box for Seven Samurai. So I think I use a spoiler box anytime I spoil a movie, no matter how old it is. And I will continue doing so. I hate movies being spoiled for me, so I won’t spoil them for anyone else.
I’m not asking anyone else to do any such thing, just pointing out that I will.
People keep bitching about that but I think it’s unfounded. If the thread title says “Discuss this Movie (SPOILERS)” and you don’t want spoiled, don’t hover over it. If you can’t control yourself, that’s your problem, not the OP’s.
When in doubt, err on the side of the spoiler box. Better too many than too few. I find them neither ugly nor distracting. Much better to have sporadic black boxes on the posts than wreck even one scene.
Hear hear. At the end of many of the shows I watch, we get: “Stay tuned for scenes from our next epi>click!<”. No thanks…I’d rather the show actually retain the drama.
Hell, I actively avoid commercials for shows I like.
For the most part, I’m starting to agree with you. But spoiler boxes become potential Spoily McSpoilersons in TV episode threads, like the weekly ones for “Battlestar Gallactica”. In those, “Spoilers” is clearly labelled in the thread title. But people will still post spoiler boxes, and not label what is being spoiled. The problem is that Battlestar is being aired several weeks in advance in the UK, and there’s actual spoilers out there, instead of just plain discussion of this week’s (US-aired) episode.
So when I see an unlabelled spoiler box in a thread clearly labeled “Spoilers here”, I’m not clicking on it - because I’m just going to assume it’s a spoiler for an episode that hasn’t aired yet. The problem is, every single time, it’s just someone who wants to err on the side of the spoiler box - increasing the odds that a (more) correctly used spoiler box will actually spoil people who click on it.
Does that make sense?
If you’ve put “(SPOILERS)” in the title, then why are you going to box your spoilers in the OP? AskNott is talking about specific cases where the thread title doesn’t explicitly mention spoilers. There’s no possible way of knowing that there are going to be boxed spoilers ruined by the hover. And sometimes I do like to go in threads for movies I haven’t seen just to see what the general consensus is, whether it’s worth seeing or not. I actively try to avoid spoilers, but if I accidentally get some on mouse-over, that’s not fair.