OMFG! He went up a weight class, he fought Forrest-fucking-Griffin and he won in 3:23 minutes of the first round… with his hands at his side? WOW. Just fucking … WOW!
I was following it online cause I had no friends to watch the fight with me tonight. Just reading the descriptions made me wince. It sounds like after the fourth or so time he got knocked down Griffin just quit.
I don’t even think you can really call that a fight.
Griffin better have had something legitimately medically wrong with him or else his stock just went way, way down. Even Joe Rogan called it the most embarassing knockout in UFC history. He looked like the Forrest Griffin of 2005 but without the heart.
In other news . . . BJ Penn impressed as expected. I love how Kenny worked for the takedown the entire fight while BJ punished him in the clinch and on the breaks, and then BJ goes for his first takedown attempt, executes it textbook-perfectly, and finishes the fight with a minute. Bring on Diego Sanchez.
I can’t decide who had a worse gameplan, Forrest or Kenny.
“Try to brawl from the outside with the most dangerous striker in MMA” or “Try to take a mundial jiu jitsu wizard to the ground.”
This is why UFC PPV feels so over priced in the last few years. The main events rarely seem to make it through the second round.
WEC tonight on VS. Torres is fighting Bowles. Torres is imho inside the top 5 pound for pound in the world. Should be a decent fight.
Even if that was a legitimate complaint, which it’s not— it’s not even true. Of the last 10 main events, 8 of them have gone past the 2nd round. And you realize last night’s main event went to the 4th round, right?
And it’s not a legitimate complaint because, unlike boxing, the undercard fights are actually exciting and noteworthy. The faster a fight ends, the more undercard fights you get to see.
That’s all hype in my opinion. Torres is good for sure. Very good. But the competition just isn’t there at 135 to determine whether or not he is truly a pound for pound great or just a dominant bantamweight. People get caught up in his record, but if you take a closer look at it, it’s full of very inexperienced guys, guys with losing records, and guys whose only fight was against Miguel. Sean Sherk had a similarly impressive record at one point but once he started running into the upper echelon, the Matt Hughes, GSPs, and BJ Penns of the world, it was clear that he wasn’t quite as invincible as his record suggested. From watching Torres fight (which again is very enjoyable), I believe that if there was a guy like Mike Brown at 135 (big, dominant wrestler), Torres would lose. I could be wrong. He will most likely win tonight so I doubt we’ll know anything we didn’t already know.
Well, so much for Torres’ pound for pound status. Penn will “officially” be back in the top 5 now, though he never left in my eyes.
Huh. I didn’t realize that Brian Bowles was affiliated with American Top Team (Mike Brown’s camp) and also a wrestler. I almost sound like I know what the hell I’m talking about! 
Ouch yeah he got rocked. Brian Bowles looked to be a bigger stronger fighter. Torres rocked him and then got a little wild and got caught in return. I think if he would have pulled guard and covered when he fell rather trying for an armbar he could have weathered the storm. Either way it will be nice to see the rematch.
BJ Penn never left my top five. I know this is all subject to opinion but my top five is somewhere around.
-
Anderson Silva I had him at number 2 for a while but his dismantling of Forrest has to be worth something.
-
GSP I think with his wrestling ability he may be one of the only people to have a legitimate ability to beat Silva.
-
BJ Penn probably one of the most naturally talented fighters there is.
-
Was Torres but he is going to have to be replaced if he can’t regain his belt. Maybe Machida.
-
Fedor the greatest heavyweight ever but his competition lately hasn’t been top notch. He managed to destroy two ex-UFC champs in his last two fights. But then they both got destroyed by much lesser fighters. I think the heavyweight division talent pool is not nearly as strong as the other weight classes.
My top 5 is less about “what have you done for me lately” and more about what I’ve witnessed them do and know they are capable of.
-
Fedor. Absolutely no one has his skillset. Armbarring an Olympic Judo medalist? Outstriking the guy who was at the time considered the best striker in MMA? Neutralizing all the best jiu jitsu fighters, submitting all the best wrestlers . . . no one can move like him, no one can think on their feet like him. He beats everyone at their own game, and he’s just as dangerous from any position. He’s never been knocked down, hurt, mounted, stopped, decisioned, or shown any weakness other than a natural tendency to cut, which can’t be counted against him.
-
BJ Penn. Sorry, I know this is controversial but I calls 'em like I sees 'em. Everyone knows his jiu jitsu credentials but he’s also been called (by boxers, no less) one of the best boxers in MMA and he can wrestle, too. Only one loss at his natural weightclass and it was a very close decision against the champ early in his career. In fact, some of the fight-analyzing websites have him winning that fight (as well as the first GSP fight.) Several wins and very competitive fights above his natural weightclass. Fought the current undefeated LHW champ at heavyweight and gave him more problems than anyone else. Only weakness was his cardio, which looks like it might be fixed after training with Marinovich.
-
Lyoto Machida. Everyone thinks it’s too early to call this guy great but I can tell by watching a guy fight, by watching him move. He is not going to lose for a very long time. He is just on a different level than almost anyone else, mentally and physically. The chance that I am wrong about this is very small. Wait and see.
-
Anderson Silva. The best striker in MMA and the greatest middleweight of all time. Looks very vulnerable to grapplers and has lost 4 times at his own weightclass or lower. Cuts a ridiculous amount of weight to make 185 but in fairness has had success at 205 and is rumored to be moving there permanently.
-
Georges St. Pierre. Probably 1 or 2 solid wins away from cementing himself as the greatest welterweight of all time. One of the best wrestlers in MMA (“the best” is probably just hype as long as guys like Henderson, Lindland, Coleman, etc are around.) Fighting outside of his weightclass would help towards his legitimacy in a lot of people’s eyes, since he is so much bigger than most of his opponents. One of his losses was to a lightweight.
I was supposed to take some time off from my summer of work travel to both nerd-out at the Chicago Comicon and watch some UFC. Unfortunately, I was only able to really nerd-out. The only fight I saw in completion was Silva-Griffin. I agree, Silva delivered a beating. Forrest was simply outclassed every step of the way. Did he even land a blow in that last salvo? I saw some of the first two rounds of the BJ Penn fight. Penn looked very good, and in shape for once 
The rest of the fight was marred due to technical difficulties.
If we’re talking top 5, I have to include:
(I haven’t been keeping up as much, so bear with me)
Fedor
Silva
GSP
Machida (we’ll see, I thought he was running around too much against Ortiz, but he absolutely dominated Evans)
Lesnar (just too damn big and getting better all the time)
Does anyone have a link to the rest of the fights (in case the link in this thread is down?) I can’t check it when I’m at this office.
If we’re talking pound for pound, he’s not even really eligible, considering his size IS his greatest asset (an argument that can be made to a smaller extent for GSP and Anderson, though less for Anderson after Saturday night.) Brock is the largest heavyweight in the sport by far. Everyone bigger than him has to fight at Superheavyweight because they can’t cut enough weight to get down to 265.
And not only that but, just . . . seriously? He’s 4 and 1. He was obviously gassed and losing to Couture in the 2nd round until he caught Randy with that hail-Mary haymaker. He was losing the standup to Mir in the 2nd fight. Let Lesnar dominate 8 to 10 more solid opponents before he even gets mentioned in the all-time greats, and even then he should never be in a pound for pound discussion. As of now I don’t see him as much bigger/stronger and certainly not more skilled than Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, and Kevin Randleman were in their heydays, and they all got figured out. Skill will eventually win out over Lesnar’s size, it’s just going to take a few tries.
When do UFC fighters weigh in for their fights and how much weight are these guys cutting?
They weigh in the day before and how much they cut really depends on the fighter and your definition of “cut”. Anderson Silva is known to “walk around” at 220+, and he fights at 185, but the week of the fight he’s down significantly lower. I believe he actually “cuts” (as in water weight) from around 205.
Georges St. Pierre and Thiago Alves are both known to be over 190lbs; though Georges has been claiming lately that he’s around 188, that’s not was he was saying a couple years ago, and he looks bigger now. I think he was feeling criticized for being the biggest welterweight and is trying to downplay his size now. There’s a picture out there somewhere of him standing next to (heavyweight) Randy Couture, and besides being an inch or two taller, Randy does not look much bigger.
Brock is rumored to walk around at 300, but probably cuts down from somewhere in the 280s.
Most people weigh at least 10 to 20lbs more in the cage than they do at the weigh in.
Very few people* don’t cut significant amounts of weight. Most American fighters wreslted in high school or college and know what a huge advantage it is.
*(Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Wanderlei Silva and Rich Franklin at 205, and most Japanese fighters not named Yushin Okami come to mind)
We’ll see about Lesnar. I think he’s getting better. I can already see we disagree on the Randy fight.
A lot of the posters at the UFC forums are rather critical of Forrest’s run back to the locker room after his loss to Silva.
Has Forrest’s attitude changed since being pounded out by Jardine? He doesn’t seem to be as “stubborn” as he used to be.
Note: I missed his fights with Evans and Jackson.
I definitely think he is getting better too. My comparison with the Hammerhouse guys wasn’t completely accurate because Brock seems more eager and willing to learn jiu jitsu, but I still don’t think he is going to be a long-lasting champion or all-time great. Brock is already in his 30s and just started training for MMA about 2 years ago. That’s not to mention that his body took years of abuse as a pro wrestler. He doesn’t have all the time in the world, and there are guys coming up who have been training since their age was in the single-digits, and oddities out there like Machida who have been training since they learned to walk. Brock’s size is not going to help him against someone who is on a completely different level of skill.
Rewatch the 2nd round of the Couture fight and I think you’ll see what I mean. Brock was not looking good. It’s not a good sign when someone who weighs 60lbs less than you is taking you down and outgrappling you.