Around 1972-73, Groucho Marx started appearing on various TV shows, which was apparently orchestrated by his manipulative companion Erin Fleming. In these appearances, the 82 year old Groucho was noticeably frail and occasionally confused. In one appearance with Bill Cosby, there was an exchange which I recall went someting like this:
Cosby: How would you compare me to other comedians working today?
Groucho: Well, you’re better than Nixon.
I thought this was a pretty sharp and funny response. Then a few days or weeks later, Groucho and Cosby appeared together on a different show. Cosby again gave Groucho the exact same setup line, but this time Groucho did not respond with the “Nixon” line. Cosby rephrased and repeated the question several times; you could see he was desperately trying to coax Groucho into repeating the “Nixon” joke.
This really struck me at the time. I wondered if the original line was not a spontaneous brilliancy by Groucho but something scripted by Cosby or someone else (as in retrospect it almost certainly was, although it’s possible that it really was spontaneous the first time and Cosby just liked it so much we wanted Groucho to repeat it).
Another example from that era: Robert Blake was once on the Tonight Show talking about his sheltered childhood. There was this exchange:
Blake: I wasn’t even allowed to make a fist until I was 16 years old.
Carson: You missed out on a lot.
Pretty great one-liner from Carson. But then sometime later Blake appeared on the show again, and they repeated the exact same exchange, pretty much word for word. I was surprised at this not only because of revelation that not all of Carson’s interview remarks are spontaneous, but that he would repeat the witticism knowing that probably most of his audience had heard him say it before.
What are some other examples of an apparently spontaneous witticism that evidence demonstrates wasn’t really spontaneous?
Pretty much any comedian on a talk show is not spontaneous and the host knows to ask them certain leading questions so they can belt out their jokes.
Winston Churchill was known for his wit but I believe he admitted that he had a lot of anxiety about talking with people and he would sort of formulate numerous responses when he knew he was going to be talking with people so he wouldn’t be caught off guard.
A friend went to see Rick Springfield in EFX multiple times. The first time, a woman from the audience got called on stage, and while there her phone rang. Rick talked to the surprised caller! Wow!
The second time she saw the show, a woman got called on stage, and her phone rang. And Rick talked to the surprised caller. woot.
The THIRD time…well, the charm had worn off.
It wasn’t that my friend didn’t suspect the first time was a setup, even while it was happening. But how many people who went to the show went home thinking a real random person took a phone call while on stage with Rick as EFX? Probably a lot.
When Dennis Miller was on Monday Night Football, it was supposed to be that he would comment on the game naturally - he would make funny asides during the game because he was a naturally funny person. there’s always something you can spot, if you are a comedian.
It became painfully obvious even on the first day that every “spontaneous witticism” was scripted, and was structured into the broadcast. Bad enough, but he did such a bad job of it, most fell flat. And there were only a set number every broadcast. It sucked, and he was soon gone.
The idea was good - Robin Williams would have killed! But Mille was so bad at it -0 you could tell he was reading and not spontanousing.
A good joke bears repeating. Groucho and Carson were known for their unscripted comebacks, but that doesn’t mean they won’t reuse a line that worked well the first time. This often means purposely preparing the setup for the line as was the case with Cosby setting up Groucho multiple times for his expected comeback. This doesn’t mean the first time wasn’t spontaneous.
Have you never spontaneously said or done something in response to a question then seeing it got a good response, repeat it?
Supposedly, both Rochester’s poem and the king’s response were impromptu. However, this was in an era when lèse-majesté carried severe penalties. In my opinion, it was probably carefully staged, to embarrass some minister who had angered the king.
I remember listening to the first day of Miller’s radio show and then, that night, seeing him on The Daily Show where he repeated the same monologue verbatim while Jon Stewart fed him cues, laughed uproariously and acted as though it was all spontaneous wit. Ah, the shine that wore off in my eyes that day as I lost my naivety…
During a magic show in Las Vegas, the magician pulled off a clever car disappearance.
After the applause died down, he asked the audience if they had any questions.
Fifth grade… My teacher was telling a story about playing basketball and his opponent kept elbowing him on his head. He told the guy to “knock it off”. Everyone chuckled - it sounded like he said to knock his head off. Years later I realized it was probably planned and he probably used that every year.
On Whose Line is it Anyway, which is supposed to be spontaneous, I hear them use jokes I’ve heard before.
Agree to disagree. Williams batting average was about .150
Hardly surprising. Miller was and has never been known for his spontaneity. His forte has always been his overly scripted routines.
Again hardly surprising. Even with nothing pre-scripted it isn’t surprising that an improv comic falls back on lines they know in the heat of the moment. The aforementioned Robin Williams had to stop watching other comics because his brain absorbed their jokes and they would pop out when he was improving.
Back in 2001 Elton John and Billy Joel toured together. They each played a set, then came out together for a third set. When I saw them, during Joel’s set, he announced that it was one of his band member’s birthday. In honor of this, said band member got to pick out any song he wanted and the band would play it, and said band member got to sing. They then launched into “Highway to Hell.”
A couple of years later I was talking to a friend who had recently seen Billy Joel, and she told me this same story. So I looked up some set lists, and it turned out “Highway to Hell” was a frequent song played during Joel’s tours.
I don’t think it’s a “phrase” as in a set euphemism or anything. It’s just, well, masturbating for men is usually done by making a loose fist. Johnny was just making that connection in his joke.
Some friends of mine went to see a taping of “Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me” and came away very disappointed. They said that the folks on stage would pause, come back, and re-do jokes to have better timing, lines, etc.
I would have been possibly more than mildly but not very disappointed. I had surmised that they took out a lot of the bad material from the tapings, but re-doing jokes does seem to violate the spirit of it somehow.