Sports Parents: Ever Heard of a "GAME"?

The BBQ Pit
61

**yosemitebabe-**I don’t think anyone would argue that sports should take precedence, from an administrational standpoint, over science. Actually, maybe in the inner city, someone might argue that, but I certainly don’t have any problem with saying that sports should only be funded if academics are well provided for first. I just don’t think sports are preventing any classes from having books- most popular sports teams can, to some degree, fund themselves through ticket sales, bake sales, and stuff like that. In spectrum’s example, I have a hard time believing that the school administration footed the bill for the new turf, given that the classes didn’t have enough books. I’d imagine that there was some sort of booster club behind that.

And on preview, I see that spectrum has no interest in any kind of meaningful discussion and isn’t addressing what I’ve already said. Good for you. You want to sling insults like Neanderthal, despite not knowing how to spell it, have at it. The intellectuals will “win” in the end- how perfectly ironic.

What a waste of time. People like to play sports. Get over it.

62

Wow. All this vitriole towards high school sports. I guess I’m one of the few who has good memories of high school sports.

I started high school as an extrememly shy kid who had trouble finding a group to hang out with because of my painful shyness. I just could never get an opening conversation going. Then I started running cross country and track. I had a group I could talk to since we had common interests and ready-made conversation topics. We all were after the same goals. Cross country isn’t really a “team” sport in that you win or lose based on individual performance (though scores count toward the team total), but I learned so much about helping others through tough spots and how to seek out advice when I was having difficulties of my own. I was never the team star, but I was a good, dependable runner–and that gave me a lot of confidence.

I also remember when I was in 5th grade and was highly embarassed that I couldn’t shoot a free throw. Yes, my dad took me out to the drive way and we worked on free throws for several days (it took me a while to get it). I’m sure my dad was much nicer about it than the dad in the OP. My dad was very patient and constructive in his “coaching” of me. I was not a natural at it by any means. But I did learn how to shoot a free throw. I remember that time as a great experience when my dad helped me learn something that was important to me.

These days, when I’m really frustrated about something I think I’ll never get, I remember telling my dad “I’m hopeless, I’ll never be able to do this.” And my dad saying “yes you can–you just don’t know how yet. All you have to do is learn the technique.”

63

Like many another Doper, I despised sports as a child and teen – I’ve only come to appreciate (some of) them as an adult.

But I fail to see how forced immersion of a child in solo practice at parental behest (probably for the vicarious gratification reasons advanced by other posters) builds socialization, team-building, or working towards a common goal.

And the fact is that the overwhelming majority of sports fans, including nearly every “sports parent” I’ve ever encountered, is less interested in the alleged values of sports that you outline, than in [size=4]WINNING[/size.

64

Goddamn. I knew some people were bitter about sports, but I didn’t think they were so unreasonable.

I’d also like to note that I am a fucking scientist, so don’t fucking presume to lecture me about needing to teach science. Spectrum: you’re just a jealous little weasel who still can’t get over that somebody else had fun and got some attention for it. And this “jock-asshole” stuff is bullshit; if I can play crease D while geeking it up in my weekly RPG and being a science nerd, anybody can benefit from sports.

65

Gee, you’re right, jocks aren’t idiotic assholes. I mean, it must be totally a coincidence that virtually every member of my high school football team took the history classes taught (badly) by coaches (and were rarely called on or asked to speak before the class) and the science class that was so easy that it was called “rocks for jocks.”

In my experience, the average jock coasts by on his meaningless ability to throw a ball. They are worse than just a siphon of money away from noble academic goals, they are a waste of desk space, as well.

And, no, Jimmy, there was no booster club for the football team at my high school (though we had one for our swim team and for the arts programs). They got their cash from the school, and could go back to the till as many times as they wanted, even exceeding their budget, as they did every year. And when teachers complained that their budgets were being raided to pay for the dunces on the football team they were chided for not having “school spirit.”

Which was also the excuse used to try to force us all to go to mandatory pep rallies —because you had to show your “school spirit” and support our football team! Which apparently sucked. I found a way to skip them my second week of my freshman year, so I don’t really remember.

Football was a fucking religion in my hometown. All hail the idiocy of moronball. If I ever have children, I hope it’s not a son who grows up into a football player, because I would prefer to never look upon that game again for the rest of my life.

66

So you’ve turned your own bad experience into a generalization that has to cover all sports programs in all schools everywhere. I don’t suppose it will make any difference when I tell you that the MVP of our local high school’s varsity volleyball team is ranked fifth in the junior class, with a GPA of about 4.3 or so. Not to mention that the students who are third and fourth in the class are also dedicated athletes and dedicated students. It is possible to be both.
It is also possible to be an athlete and a genuinely good kid, which I’ve seen consistently over the past years, while my daughters have played several sports apiece.
I’m sorry that your experience with high school sports was so negative, but I don’t think you are justified in assuming that it’s typical.
Nor do I think that eliminating sports from schools would eliminate excessive competetiveness. One of our local private high schools has a band that practices most of the summer, several hours a day, because they compete all during the school year. They push those kids harder than any of their athletes.

Let’s face it, in any group of people, especially kids, you’re going to have good ones and jerks. Sports may point that up a bit, but it also brings out the good in the good ones quite a bit.

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You keep saying this as if it were a fact. Do you have any sort of evidence for what seems to me to be a baseless assumption?

In other words: cite?

68

I’d try to break it down. The pro athletes are in their own special category. That’s clearly gotten out of hand. They have the rap sheets to prove it. College and HS athletics have become insanely competitive to the extent they are feeders to a pro league.

Whatever the school, at almost any level, it’s possible for a good athlete to get undeserved special treatment. Recently U of Miami recruited and signed Willie Williams (10 priors). Ha, Florida Gator dig, right? No, we recruited him also.

Tennis used to be the child prodigy sport, but golfers are attempting it more also. The general rule is clearly younger all the time for turning pro, whatever the sport. Many of these kids make a bundle in endorsements before they even tee or tip it up. Others get horrible advice from an agent and get nowhere ever.

That’s all really our fault. Obvously, there is a societal obsession with sports and entertainment.

Then there is the good side of sports: teamwork, friendship, competing by the rules, exercise, fresh air, etc. I agree that it’s the “control freak” parent problem, not any specific activity. Beauty pagents and dog shows, with the emphasis on twisted eugenics, are examples of odd competitive outlets for people. Frisbee dogs enjoy it more.

Logically, humans should not be sedentary. We have not yet evolved out of our hunter gatherer bodies. We must graft activity onto a normal modern day. That’s almost verbatim from a PBS special, so it must be true.

I’d suggest parking far away from the entrance to the mall. You’ll get out quicker anyway if you can walk fast. I walk three dogs. Try one first. Walking is far superior to nothing. I can’t jog long distances due to a meniscus problem. OTOH, I’ll walk, sprint, walk sprint. That’s more useful if I ever have to run away from something IRL anyway. That’s my method for getting my German shepherd to ignore whatever. “Let’s Go!” sprint She likes running even more than barking.

69

Spectrum, how old are you?
Seriously, unless you’re only a year out of high school or something, I humbly propose that you are out of your gourd. Move on.

I can’t say I agree. While everyone knows that some jocks do coast by, the vast majority I knew in HS were in my honors classes with me. I myself played three sports a year (soccer, broomball, softball) and graduated tenth in my class. I went to college (where I played soccer again, gasp!) and graduated well. Does my experience outweigh your experience?

I think you should either tone down your flaming assitude towards people who played sports, or else provide some cites to back up your rather extreme claims. Because, right now, you’re coming across as shrill, bitter, and unbalanced.

70

I suspect that some of this is regional.

Spectrum is, I believe, from a Midwestern town. The Midwest is known for revering sports to an almost dysfunctional degree (in my opinion, in some cases). When I first moved to Hooterville (Midwestern town) my jaw dropped open by the nigh-onto obsessive and freaky way that sports was treated here. It was, flat-out, scary. Some of the people here are WACKED about sports.

At least it seemed that way to to me, since I’m from L.A., which lost two football teams and nobody seems to care. (Not that LA isn’t frantic about the Lakers, but people aren’t nearly as freaky as some of the people here in Hooterville are about sports. Or maybe it’s just the percentage of WACKED people. I think there are more of them out here.)

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That’s one team at one school. Doesn’t say anything about sports at other schools, or sports in general. Here the list of teams at http://physed.stuy.edu/sportsteam.htmlStuyvesant HS. I guess you can say those jocks are idiotic assholes too, but I don’t think I would.

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The rest of us will be praying you don’t reproduce, period.

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[Amit it, Spectrum - you’re a playa hata
I do hate people who speak like that.]

Yeah, I figured you did. Why do you think I said it? :slight_smile:

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No, I wouldn’t. Well, not idiots, at least. Who knows if the undeserved accolades sent the way of athletes has made them assholes yet. But this is a private school, which can be selective of its student body. Not really comparable with a public school.

75

Uh huh. So now all accolades given to athletes are undeserved, and always turn those athletes into assholes. That’s some broad brush you’ve got there. Why in the world should anyone take you seriously when you make sweeping statements like that?

Still waiting for the cite on that “more harm than good” claim as well.

You’ve got some serious Issues, pal.

76

Always undeserved – there’s nothing praiseworthy about being able to throw a ball. Doesn’t always turn people into asshole, but in my experience, it typically does.

On one side you’ve got the people who’s lives are made wonderful by the grace of their skill at some stupid game.

On the other side you have everyone whose self esteem was harmed because they weren’t fast enough, coordinated enough or whatever enough to be good at sports. And you have everyone whose parents were abusive to them over sports (ie, the original point of this thread). And you have everyone who has ever been picked on by some muscle-headed jock asshole. And you have everyone whose worthwhile academic endeavors, such as art, literature, since, etc, were not properly funded because districts spent money financing sporting teams.

You’ll never be able to convince me that the former outnumber the latter.

Excuse me for not worshipping at the altar of sports.

77

Says you. Others—many, many others—disagree.

Don’t forget all the people who enjoy watching the stupid game. They vastly outnumber the people who play it.

Not my job to convince you. You made the claim, so it’s on you to back it up

I don’t care if you “worship” sports or not. I’m not much of a sports fan myself, except for pro football. I played soccer as a kid, for a few years, but wasn’t really into it. But I still realize that it’s a positive influence in many people’s lives. And yeah, a negative in some, but that’s no reason to condemn all sports.

You don’t have to worship sports, or even like them, but this frothing vitriol you have for all things sports-related seems a tad neurotic to me.

78

I don’t deny that. I simply believe they are wrong, and no one has ever shown me any reason why I should think that throwing a ball is a respectable skill worthy of any more accolades than one would give a dog who successfully caught a frisbee in his mouth.

Chalk that up as another thing I’ll never understand about people: getting excited about someone else’s “accomplishments”. “YEA! I got to School X and that guy goes to School X and he just scored a touchdown! WOW! For some reason this makes me HAPPY!” Don’t get it at all.

Technically, this being the pit, it’s neither of our jobs to convince the other of anything. I think we’re mostly supposed to swear at each other. :slight_smile:

I don’t condemn all sports, universally. I condemn most high school sports as a drain on limited school resources, which would better be spent on academic endeavors such as science and the arts.

79

How is that any different from getting excited about a painting someone else made, or a book someone else wrote?

There’s no forum on this board where you can make an erroneous claim and not get called on it. Just that here in the Pit, the rules are a little less formal. Plus we get to swear at each other.

So shall we call that a retraction? :wink:

That’s a much more reasonable position than the one you’ve been espousing up to now. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s a reasonable position.

80

I’ve played roller and ice hockey for the better part of 12 years now. During those 12 years I’ve gotten better, but I am by no means an all star player. Nor do I have any chance to play in the NHL. Did my lack of stellar skill cause my emotional growth to be stunted? Hell no! I felt proud when I played well, little frustrated when I did not, but other wise emerged unharmed. I still enjoy playing to boot.

If your self esteem (and it does sound like YOUR self esteem) is so terribly low that you’re down on yourself, because you simply can’t play a sport well, you have some other issues to work out. If your self esteem is so terribly low, because your precious art club didn’t get enough money to buy its watercolors and paint-by-number sets, you have some other issues to work out. And finally, if your self esteem is so terribly low, because your parents choose to dump on you instead of encourage and praise you, thats right, you guessed it, you have some other issues to work out.

Leave those of us who enjoy playing sports alone – Go tell someone who gives a damn all this shit…like a shrink…atleast they get paid to listen to your bitching.