Yeah, if you’re looking for some cargo space, go with a Subaru Impreza WRX Sport Wagon. Yeah, you’re basically driving a compact station wagon with a hood scoop, but I speak from experience about the sheer amount of stuff you can fit in an Impreza wagon. That might be hard to find with a $12,000 cap, though. The Impreza has a reputation for being a great rally car but not so much a track car. I’ve never tried topping out my 1995 Impreza wagon but I know it’ll do at least 90. I’ve never had it anywhere where I could just go flat out until it topped out or hit the limiter (if it has a limiter.) The engine in the WRX class is a lot bigger than in mine as well (about a liter), so I’m sure it’d perform well. Just make sure you get the stick.
There’s some helpful information here for us.
The Mazda6 is a great car – Mazda knows what they’re doing when it comes to dialing in fun-to-drive. It’s a good looker, too. I would choose the Mazda3 over it though. It’s less expensive, more nimble, It has just as much power (unless you get the S version of the 6, in which case it has 60 less, but the extra weight pretty much negates the extra power as far as driving enjoyment), much less weight, and looks younger.
It would pretty much be a tossup for me between the Prelude, Celica GT-S, and the Sentra S-ER (I wouldn’t even consider a lesser Sentra). As far as performance, these are all pretty even. The Suzuki is underpowered, undertired, and probably not designed to be as sporty as these (I’ve never driven one, though.)
Now, you say you would like to do some racing. Autocross or road racing? If you are more interested in autocross, I would suggest either the Sentra SE-R. It has a great power band, and it’s pretty easy to drive fast in that type of setting. If you were more interested in road racing, I would suggest the Prelude. It has a great feel, and The Prelude Type-SH’s handling dynamics are about as close to those of a rear wheel drive car as you can get from a front-driver.
I say go with the Prelude. Of these, it’s the best all-around in my opinion. It’s beautiful, reliable, has a very nice interior, and it’s very well put together.
I would of suggested the Mazda RX8. It seats 4 and is a wonderful sporty-car. But, while affordable, it does not meet your $12,000 limit.
Several of the above suggestions do not meet this limit as well.
Perhaps a used Dodge Neon with the manual tranny?
Man, 12K is tough for a new car; I am assuming you are not talking about brand new cars here, if so, please forgive this post.
Ok, removing the two-seaters…
The Acura Integra Type R is almost perfect for this. It’s the best car in D-Stock autocross, parts are very cheap thanks to the aftermarket, Honda’s got a great reputation for reliability, and the gas mileage is good (30 city, 35 highway, the EPA numbers are ******** on most manual-transmission cars). It doesn’t look particularly aggressive to the police but every enthusiast will recognize it first-glance. I personally believe that the Integra’s about the best-looking Japanese car out there - it even looks good dented up, on ugly wheels, in primer.
It has one fatal flaw. You live in the third ward of Houston. The life expenctancy of a real Integra Type R in the Third Ward is measured in seconds. It’s got an engine/gearbox unit that a good Honda mechanic can get out in an hour and can be sold for $3000.
The Mini Cooper and Mini Cooper S have now depreciated under the price cap. They’re the dominant cars in H and G-stock respectively (although that ought to change in a hurry when my old CRX arrives on the scene next year), and they get good mileage. You do pay BMW parts prices - painful the first four years and as cheap as anyone after that. The downside here is tire wear. The Mini has a REALLY stiff suspension - it’s not too far removed from Mickey Thompson Rigidamatic. As a consequence, the tires wear out in a tearing hurry. They’re not cheap, either, as many of them have 17" and 18" wheel options right from the factory. If you don’t autocross it TOO often the wear may be acceptable. It usually isn’t too bad on the street.
And now for the rest of the good stuff…
The Camaro and Firebird have four seats, though if your parents rejected a Miata they’ve gotta reject a Camaro. Same with my “hope you’re a good mechanic” idea of a Dodge Stealth or Mitsubishi 3000GT.
The Mustang has a useful back seat. It is, unfortunately, a Ford. If I were to spend twelve grand on a car, I’d expect it to last twelve years. I applaud anyone with the hardheaded fortitude to continue driving and fixing (mostly fixing) a Ford after five or six years.
Dodge’s Neon ACR is a very good left-field choice. They’re built for racing, they’re in G-stock now, and if any good driver still had one they’d give the Mini Cooper S a hell of a time. Plain, light, stiff bodyshell, good suspension design, big motor, and good gearbox. The best one in America will run you $8000. Prepare to spend the rest on all the special tools you need to actually work on a Neon.
This leaves the European and Japanese four-seat cars.
Nissan made a four-seat 300ZX but didn’t make a turbo version. No dice.
Toyota Supra prices are no longer finite. Before “The Fast and the Furious” a good '94 Supra Turbo would cost ten grand. They’re now worth what they cost new.
Mazda never imported the Cosmo. Nissan never imported the Skyline GT-R. If you can find a grey-market Skyline GT-R or GTS-t for less than $12000 ignore all the other advice anyone has given you and buy it before someone else does.
Nissan Maximas are very fast, clean-handling cars. Wrong image, though. If you can find a black-on-black one with black wheels, black trim, barely-legal tint, and a manual transmission that wouldn’t be a bad choice. $12000 gets you a lot. It is my opinion that Nissan and Mazda build more reliable, durable cars than Toyota and Honda.
Subaru Imprezas of a couple years ago are cheap for a good reason. The transmission isn’t even close to being strong enough for the motor. It costs thousands to replace. Subaru cancels the warranty as soon as the car enters the autocross lot - neat trick considering that they gave away an SCCA membership with the car.
The Infiniti Q45 is too big. The G20 is too slow.
The Lexus IS300 would be great if 90% of them weren’t automatics. It doesn’t help a car’s sporting credibility if the car wasn’t even available with a manual box for the first year.
The front-engined Porsches (924, 944, 928) are now reaching the end of their design lifespan. Porsche’s engineers are the best you’ll find. Most of the 944s you’ll find are now in “self-destruct” mode.
Mercedes and Audi did not make a credible sporty car between 1990 and 2000. Volkswagens just got softer and softer after the Corrado was introduced.
This leaves the rest of the BMWs. They’ve got a lot of the aces in this hand. They’re sporty, durable, fast-depreciating, and not too difficult to work on yourself. The mileage isn’t bad. The 328ci/330ci is the other contender in D-Stock and usually beats the Integras unless it’s cold or raining. The E34 (88-94) 5-series is no heavier than the 3-series in D-stock and a 535i would probably be just as quick.
So to sum up, first option is a Nissan Skyline. After that, a BMW of some description, followed by the Mini. If you don’t like any of them, look for a Neon ACR or Nissan Maxima.
Oh yeah, you’re not going road racing for $12000. Sorry to break it to you. Running ITC or SSC will cost twice that for a year at a competive level, and those are the cheapest classes in SCCA Club Racing.
Tell me more.
Which years?
i’m looking at something from 98-2000
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- Perhaps I should have clarified about getting lower-profile tires but “not getting wider tires”, that is, getting… -smaller-diameter tires. Because they do make the car feel sportier. The outer diameter of the tire is smaller, which improves the accelleration (and even the braking) some-percentage, but knocks that same-percentage off the possible top speed. Since most normal people spend more time accellerating from 0-60 than they probably do driving at 120+ MPH, losing some of the top speed is of no major consequence, but gaining low-end accelleration is. Practically any tire you buy will be rated for at least 80-90 MPH, so that’s no problem. And the lower-diameter/profile tires improve the lateral handling/feel.
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I have driven a car before and after the tires where changed this way–and the difference in overall feel was pretty dramatic–even though nothing else had been changed on the car. Yes there is a higher risk of rim/tire/undercarriage damage, and it does look a bit riced–but there’s no question that it works, and it’s easy to get done and doesn’t cost a lot of money.
~
'84 Corvette
I keed I keed
This applies primarily to 2001-2004 or so WRX models. The gearbox is the same one used behind a 165 horsepower 2.5 liter engine - except that in this case it’s bolted up to a 225-horsepower turbocharged 2.0. The gearbox appears to be adequate for the 2.5 models and the STi has an entirely different 6-speed transmission.
One of the best-handling cars of all time in Z51 form. Not too heavy, wide tires, and very little weight transfer due to some extremely stiff springs and swaybars. If she didn’t need four seats I’d suggest this.
Suzuki just got done reaming Daewoo, who build the Reno for them, in public for poor quality. Suzuki finished dead last on the recent JD Powers new car reliability survey. Suzuki blames this on Daewoo, which is probably correct–prior to introducing three new models, all built by Daewoo, Suzuki ranked about middle-of-the-pack on reliability; plus, Daewoo couldn’t make it in the US, even given extremely low prices, which ought to tell you something. I believe that Suzuki made a massive mistake with the Daewoo cars, but they were listening to GM, which has a long and cynical tradition of
…ahem…okay, off my soapbox now. Sorry. I got carried away.
Anyway, if you consider a Suzuki, you should consider the Aerio, which is Japan-built. All the other sedans appear to be crap.
That must be why Suzuki’s are so incredibly cheap. A brand new Reno fits into my budget, the only car I’ve seen that does.
Anyways, I think Ive narrowed it down to three cars at the moment. They all three are good looking, fast, and not too expensive to insure.
Mazda6- I just love the look of this car, even if it is a sedan and not terribly fast when you get a 4cyl. The look just makes up for almost anything.
Mazdaspeed Protege- Ive seen some dip into my price range. Cute little car, a Mazdaspeed so it will be reasonably fast. Parents have been pushing for me to look at Proteges, so why not just upgrade to a Mazdaspeed?
Acura RSX- Very nice looking car, fast 0-60 speed.
Nissan Skyline- If I can get my hands on one, it is so mine!
Thanks for all of the replies! Many of the cars on this list (corvette… drool) were researched, but eliminated due to price, insurance, availability, exc. Thank you once again, and keep up the tire conversation, I love learning more about cars!
Right cars, wrong order…
Skyline first,
Mazdaspeed Protege second,
Mazda6 third,
RSX not at all (It’s a Honda. Hondas get stolen in bad areas).
I thought you said the two-seaters were out. If they aren’t, the Corvette’s still in the running - not much more to run, fix, or insure than a Miata.
Uh, chaparralv8, I’m not sure if you get all your information on cars from playing GT4 or what, but Nissan never imported ANY Skylines of any variant (save G35s, and you’re not going to see one of those within championship spitting distance of $12K) into the United States.
It looks like you must autox, so I’m a bit surprised by some of the things you are saying. Regardless, of the list you just gave, NONE of them are going to be found for $12K, unless you find a well-used 4cyl Mazda 6.
My recommendation: The Celica (in GT-S trim) you were looking at earlier, a Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, or a pre-01 Impreza RS.
I don’t know what Rocketeer’s fascination with the Suzuki Aerio is. 
We prophets are doomed to be ignored in our own time… 
Actually, I have seen all of those cars dip below 12k. Granted, they are the worn ones, or the ones with a dealer rebate, but it can be done. I am also going to look around till the beginning of the summer, so once the new model year is out the prices on most of the cars should drop another 1-2k, putting all of them well into my range.
Also, the cars I listed were the main ones on my list. Im keeping tabs on the prices for most of the cheaper cars listed here, to see where they all fit.
(Plus, the insurance on the Celica GT-S was amazingly high, or else it would be towards the top of my list)
(and my grandmother has a nissan sentra, so on that principle alone I would never buy the thing)
You’re going into college: You don’t want one of the “worn” ones. You want one in tip-top shape, because you don’t want to have to pay for repairs. Feel free to go ahead and link me a Mazdaspeed Protege in decent condition for less than $12K, and I’ll be suprised (and might go buy it!). You’re definitely not going to find a non-salvage G35 (Skyline) or Integra Type R for that price. Maybe a non-S RSX. But who the heck wants one of those?
An SE-R Spec V is not your typical Sentra. 6-sp, 2.5L engine. Pretty quick and fun.
What are the early model Dodge SRT-4s down to in cost now?
Nissan never imported any pre- V35 Skylines into the United States. MotoRex and others did. I think there are around 1000 Skylines in America - v. rare but they do exist. There’s probably no way to tell how much one is actually worth at this point. I’m guessing that an R32 would be down around $12k by now - it is, after all, more than 10 years old.
Mazdaspeed Proteges and Minis are in that price bracket, probably not low enough that they could be prepped at a national-championship level for under $12k.
Neon ACRs used to beat the Miatas regularly when they competed against each other. Miatas still lead in C and E stock and G-stock is slower than that.
If you can get a Miata, try for a '99 with the Sport package. That’s the car to have in C-stock and will probably remain that way for some time.
This car is beautiful, my brother owns one now. But you’re not gonna find one for anywhere too close to 12k…unless it’s got a ridiculous amount of miles on it. New ones go for over 20k. And it seems that some people that buy them (if you’re not buying from a dealer, that is) improve on them, which will also jack up a used price. It would be easier to find a used Integra or Prelude in your budget.
Without any distractions like cars that may or may not exist in America or cars that could just squeeze under $12000, the choices start to become a little clearer.
I think that your original list makes more sense than any list any of us has come up with. You named four cars that are definitely going to be reliable, are well-supported by the enthusiast community, are great and inexpensive on the street, and would be competitive in local autocross with a set of race tires. They’ve all been in production long enough that finding a very good one for $12k shouldn’t be too hard.
Miata - CS/ES
MR2 - CS/ES
Mazda6 - HS?
Celica - GS
I’d prefer a $6000 first-gen Miata or second-gen MR2 to almost any $12000 four-seat car - I think this thread demonstrated it aptly. When all’s said and done there’s no substitute for a real sports car.