Happy St. George’s Day! Ah, England–too much reading Agatha Christie and R. F. Delderfield as a young girl gave me a rather romantic view of the country. A trip there in 1981, however, only served to cement the love.
Hedgerows. I love hedgerows and tea and green rolling fields and the language and literature of English.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
I don’t think I even have a flag to fly. Why should I? What attribute of the world would become better if I did?
If you want to fly a flag, and it makes you happy, then that’s good, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I like you Mange, I really do.
But for an Englishman to ask why should he fly his flag is a bit odd
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
There was a bit on NPR all about St George’s day today. My heritage is all British (there might be a Huegenot in there somewhere too)–Prostestant Irish, Scots (Highland) and English.
They had a woman on of Pakistani descent who was born in England and said she felt she was English but didn’t feel comfortable celebrating the day because of the “paranoia” out there*. (?). Also, she said she walks like an English woman does. What in hell does that mean? How do English women walk (I’ve been there–all I’ve seen is bipedal motion). How does it differ from a Pakistani walk?
And then I drove past my little Midwest town’s post office and there’s a guy out front handing out leaflets with a table that says, “STOP THE BRITISH FOOD RIP OFF”
WTH does that mean? (here in the Midwest, we’re not known for our English immigrants–German, Dutch, and hodgepodge, but not English).
*apparently some football hooligans (love that word) have co-opted the flag for nefarious purposes?
[/QUOTE]
About the walking: English women walk with a steady confident pace, Pakistanis seem to walk as if subdued and worried about something.
Maybe the British Food Rip Off was referring to the fact that British grub over there costs a bloody fortune, I know, I’ve been
Yer actual hoolies are in the minority these days, the days of the flag being used by them to promote their gormless racist ideas are gone
[QUOTE=chowder]
I like you Mange, I really do.
But for an Englishman to ask why should he fly his flag is a bit odd
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, it probably wasn’t appropriate in this thread. I hope you had a happy St George’s Day.
But I notice you still didn’t actually respond with a reason.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
I’m sorry, it probably wasn’t appropriate in this thread. I hope you had a happy St George’s Day.
But I notice you still didn’t actually respond with a reason.
[/QUOTE]
Being English is reason enough wouldn’t you say?
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
They had a woman on of Pakistani descent who was born in England and said she felt she was English but didn’t feel comfortable celebrating the day because of the “paranoia” out there*. (?). Also, she said she walks like an English woman does. What in hell does that mean? How do English women walk (I’ve been there–all I’ve seen is bipedal motion). How does it differ from a Pakistani walk?
[/QUOTE]
The English woman walks with her head high. Unless she’s from Pakistani descent and there’s some big blokes looking at her angrily… oh, wait, women from any place start looking for an exit when there’s big blokes looking at us angrily.
You can tell the recent immigrants from Certain Places from the ones who’ve been here (by here I mean “places where women walk with their head high”) by how they walk. Promise. I’ve seen people go from looking every where except straight ahead the whole time (both men and women, it’s more noticeable for the women) to walking like the locals do, and I find it a Great Thing.
[QUOTE=chowder]
Being English is reason enough wouldn’t you say?
[/QUOTE]
As a matter of interest, do you believe all English people should fly the flag on St. George’s day?
Historical footnote: George was probably born in what is now Turkey and he worked for the Romans.
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara]
As a matter of interest, do you believe all English people should fly the flag on St. George’s day?
Historical footnote: George was probably born in what is now Turkey and he worked for the Romans.
[/QUOTE]
I believe that all English people should be proud of their heritage and of the land they live in.
Instead of merely flying the flag on St.Georges Day they should take a leaf from the citizens of the USA and fly the flag all the bloody time
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara]
Historical footnote: George was probably born in what is now Turkey and he worked for the Romans.
[/QUOTE]
Which is probably why St. George is REALLY popular in the Balkans. REALLY. Even the Turks love him, and they’re Muslims. Only we have St. George’s Day on May 6. (It’s a national holiday in Bulgaria.)
[QUOTE=chowder]
Being English is reason enough wouldn’t you say?
[/QUOTE]
Being English means that i can fly a flag and sing “Jerusalem” if i want to but that it doesn’t make me any less patriotic if I don’t.
Being English means always standing up to bullies - whether they are individuals, groups or entire nations - but also having the honesty to stand up and be counted for mine (and our) own acts of bullying both past and present.
Being English means being proud of my history and heritage, but not letting that pride blind me to what is right and necessary here and now.
Being English means also being British and recognising that it is through cooperation with other nations (both on this island and beyond it) that we become greater, and that cooperation does not automatically mean subsumation. It was with the Welsh that we won at Agincourt, with the Irish that we won in Spain, with the Germans that we won at Waterloo and with the Americans and a hundred other nations that we defeated Hitler. Our battles may now be fought in the realms of international politics and global markets, but it is still only through working with others that we will come out on top.
Being English means doing things in a calm and measured way. It means ever-evolving laws and rulings based on a thousand years of precedent, not some random piece of paper that can only ever represent the thoughts and morals of one particular time (be it a bunch of blokes at a piss up in Philidelphia, or some blokes in a quango in Whitehall). It means realising that for every anti-asylum seeker headline printed in bold 72-point type there is the story of someone’s life genuinely changed for the better which will never be printed. It means realising that the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”
Being English means have a cheeky Sunday pint in the local, followed by a cheeky Turkish, Indian or Chinese takeaway on the way home.
Being English means knowing that St George was effectively an Eastern European migrant worker and is also the patron saint of Sexually Transmitted Diseases. It also means having the sense of humour to realise that this makes him perfectly suited to be the patron saint of this “precious stone set in the silver sea.”
We are a nation of shopkeepers, of leopards not lions, of immigrants and civil servants, of both warriors and conscientious objectors, of imperialists and apologists, of republicans and royalists.
We are walking contradictions, every single one of us, and I would not have it any other way.
[QUOTE=chowder]
Today, April 23rd, is the Patron Saint of Englands Day.
Do I see any flags flying?
Not a fucking one.
It’s got to the stage where Englishmen and women are told that to fly our flag may cause offence to others. Well fuck 'em I say, my flag is gonna be hanging out the window and there are a couple that I can attach to my car.
If “they” want to be offended that’s tough titty
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I only saw one obvious St George’s Flag yesterday, draped across the front of my favourite cider pub. I enjoyed their patriotic buffet - including curried vol-au-vents, natch. But my pint was soured when standing outside smoking, I heard the landlord saying to one of his mates how the Asians in the shop next door ‘had better not complain’ about his flag, and how every other nationality gets to display their flag, so why not the English? He just sounded like a paranoiac who bases his fears on those of the tabloids, rather than observed reality.
[QUOTE=chowder]
I believe that all English people should be proud of their heritage and of the land they live in.
Instead of merely flying the flag on St.Georges Day they should take a leaf from the citizens of the USA and fly the flag all the bloody time
[/QUOTE]
Do citizens of the US really hang flags out of their windows and motor cars all the time?
I’ve never visited the US, which hopefully explains my ignorance on this point.
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara]
Do citizens of the US really hang flags out of their windows and motor cars all the time?
I’ve never visited the US, which hopefully explains my ignorance on this point.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. There are little flags made for cars that look like this that were really ubiquitous after September 11.
FWIW, when I googled that image, some of the top choices were pictures of English flags for cars too.
Well put garius, heck that makes me want to fly an English flag (at slightly lower staff than the US one by American Legion rules) and my last ties with your bonnie isle were broken around 1726 when good ol’ Moses Wilson set foot here in the colonies… er states.
Although keep in mind that them pissy blokes in Philly did add a subclause to one of our pieces of paper that explicitly allows us to arm up and shoot at anyone in charge who says we can’t fly the recognized symbol of our freedom and heritage, the good old Stars and Bars. I believe we call it the second amendment.
Of course if your St. Georges flag carries the same stigmatism as our Confederate flag relating to an unfortunate past I would understand the symbolic hesitance. Still, recognition of that past and pride in the present is important.
And heck, even your Union flag has the St. Georges cross right out there in front and surely there is no hesitance in hoisting that proud banner.
So here’s to St. George and what ever lizard he may have stuck. And here’s to all good Englishmen, sorry about that tea business.
May whatever flag you wave stand steadfast against the storms of oppression to declaire freedom and the victory of right over wrong.
[QUOTE=Quartz]
And the EU want to do away with England.
[/QUOTE]
Heaven forbid that you have fallen, yet again, for some right-wing propaganda. And I’m somewhat disappointed in the Telegraph too.
The Arc Manche: “…is a flexible network of French Regions and British local authorities along the Channel.”
My bolds. In other words, it was a mutually beneficial agreement, nearly 12 years old, that was entered into voluntarily by those authorities mentioned, that has been recognised by the EU. Those English counties petitioned the EU to have the area recognised!
Absolutely nothing like what you or the Telegraph are portraying it as. Honestly, Quartz, one only has to scratch the surface of half the stuff you come out with to find it’s a gross distortion.
[QUOTE=chowder]
Being English is reason enough wouldn’t you say?
[/QUOTE]
Being English isn’t a reason at all. It’s a nationality. I’m looking for something meaningful that starts with the word ‘because’
Perhaps it’s time once again for a thread in which I express my bafflement regarding patriotism for its own sak.
[QUOTE=chowder]
I believe that all English people should be proud of their heritage and of the land they live in.
[/quote]
There are many things I like about this country. I could list them and tell you why I like each of them, individually. What has any of that to do with waving a flag?
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
There are many things I like about this country. I could list them and tell you why I like each of them, individually. What has any of that to do with waving a flag?
[/QUOTE]
Interesting discussion on the radio last night about this. It was suggested that one of the reasons that the flag isn’t widely flown is because part of ‘being English’ is a certain level of reservation and modesty - ie. being confident internally without having to hold outward demonstrations. That pretty much defines me I reckon - I’m quite happy and proud to be English (and British) but I don’t feel the need to express that opinion to the world.
Of course, it doesn’t really help that the connotations of the flag on cars, out of windows, etc. is kinda chavvy…!
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara]
Do citizens of the US really hang flags out of their windows and motor cars all the time?
I’ve never visited the US, which hopefully explains my ignorance on this point.
[/QUOTE]
And on the bums of their calendar blondes.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
Perhaps it’s time once again for a thread in which I express my bafflement regarding patriotism for its own sak.
There are many things I like about this country. I could list them and tell you why I like each of them, individually. What has any of that to do with waving a flag?
[/QUOTE]
garius : Nailed it ever so eloquently.
I have little desire to get into any argument about why I should or should not fly my flag.
Suffice it to say that this is my country and I love England with a passion you just wouldn’t believe.
Sure we’ve done some things over the years that we shouldn’t be proud of but isn’t that true of most countries?
I’m an Englishman and damn proud of it.
