England, my England

At the present time (World Cup Fever) the whole of England is awash with the flag of St. George, it is flown from shops, houses, pubs and vehicles…it is everywhere and it makes me feel good to see it.

Now then, my pal lives about 25 miles from me in Rochdale which has a very large Muslim population. A few weeks back he was with me in my local pub and he remarked on the vast numbers of flags hanging most everywhere, he also mentioned that the landlord of his local had been advised by the police not to fly the flag in any place where it could be seen from the street. :confused:

The landlord asked why and was told that some members of the Muslim community find it offensive, some, not all I hasten to add as a fair number of Asian shops have the St. Georges flag prominantly displayed

Well aint that a shame :rolleyes:

We don’t complain when at cricket matches the flags of predominantly Muslim countries are flown, we are tolerant y’see and don’t really give a shit.

So if the flag of MY country cannot be flown without some dipstick/s complaining about it then what is the next thing we cannot do for fear of causing offence?

Oh, come on, we hear enough of these ‘stopped from flying flag’ stories in the gutter press without this board getting dominated by them. ‘Friend of a friend’ is hardly a reliable source. And there’s plenty of bigoted landlords who’d be prepared to put their own spin on what might have been a somewhat different request.

Moving thread rom IMHO to The BBQ Pit.

How is this being reported in the UK?

The story I saw on the news here in NZ was a bloke that covered his entire house in England flags and the council objected on the grounds that it made the house look “untidy”.

Fierra bought me an English flag a while ago, and I didn’t fly it because a couple Americans I spoke to said it “looked like an Aryan Nations flag”. Given how jaw-droppingly stupid the average person is and the monstrous chip some people have on their shoulder over racism or suspected racism, I’d be afraid to fly a giant white flag with a red cross here, as I’d possibly come home to a smoking pile of rubble.

Just for us geographically challenged folks playing along at home: This isn’t the Union Jack flag that I’m thinking of, correct?

If it’s true, and if it’s official policy, then it’s a sad reflection on political correctness etc. etc.

If it’s true.

However, I find it a trifle difficult to believe that a copper in a high-Muslim area, with evidence of Muslims flying the St. George flag, would target a (presumably white) pub owner to tell him to remove it.

And even if that part is correct, unless you can show it’s official policy, then the “dipstick” in question is the policeman, and your tolerance about other flags at cricket matches is irrelevant.

A quick Google of “Rochdale flag ban” reveals a couple of stories about cabbies (many of whom have apparently Muslim names) being prevented from having England stickers in their cars due to an old byelaw about advertising, but

Further investigation reveals that councillors with English-heritage names were telling taxi drivers with Muslim-heritage names not to fly St. George flags for Euro 2004 as well. This is a case of petty-minded jobsworths in the council, not PC-gone-madism.

I’m prepared to be corrected, but I suspect there’s some exaggeration and wilful misinterpretation at work here.

So, what’s the name of the pub?

No, but take that as a starting point, get rid of all the blue, and take out the red X-cross, leaving only the red + cross on a white background. The Union flag is England, Scotland and Ireland (tho’ only Northern Ireland is included in the last). Wales doesn’t rate a mention because it was a Principality, not a Kingdom, when the flag was first drawn up.

Oh, bullshit. Was it too fucking sunny for a “children’s nativity BANNED for fear of offending MUSLIMS” story? Minus style points for failing to use the phrase “political correctness gone mad”, too. Sheesh, if you’re going to do it, at least do it right.

Incidentally, googling news stories with the phrase “political correctness gone mad” is invariably entertaining. Thrill! at the HORROR of prisoners’ choice of food! Marvel! at the 2-year-old BANNED from drinking at a pub! Rejoice! that a flag removed by BARMY councillors with too much time on their hands was restored in time for the Paraguay match! There’s no end of mindless outrage!

Cluricaun: no, the George cross is this one, representing only England and not the whole Union.

To paraphrase Armando Ianucci the other day:

Did you hear they’re calling lunatic asylums “mental health care facilities” now?It’s madness gone politically correct!

JJimm…The landlord was not told to remove a flag, he was advised not to fly one if it could be viewed from the street. The name of the pub is Weavers Arms and it may well be that some exaggeration/misinterpretation is at work but I only posted what I had been told

Also, Rochdale Council have a long history of being petty minded so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to find that the story as told to me is correct

Bah. I live in the middle of a predominantly asian/muslim area, and there are plenty of England flags around. No-one gives a toss - why would they? Any muslim of the tabloid-annoying ‘extremist’ persuasion is going to be far more bothered about the alcohol in the pub than some flag.

I’ll hazard a guess that this started out as the police advising landlords not to hang up england flags for fear of attracting lots of noisy football supporters who will annoy the local residents at chucking-out time (prompting anguished letters to the Daily Mail about “drunken yoobos ruining the country”) and a process of chinese whispers turned it into a “Oh noes - teh BROWN PERIL!!!11!!11” scare story.

On the other hand, our political representative is George Galloway :rolleyes: - with him as an example, I have to grant it’s entirely possible that the Rochdale local authorities are barking loonies - have you noticed any other signs of brain fever amongst the local political classes?

Well apart from the odd abberations from Messrs. Blair, Prescott, Clark and co. I can’t honestly say I’ve noticed anything unusual about our noble leaders, they seem to be the very epitome of integrity/honesty and erm other thingies :rolleyes:

Whoa! That can’t be right - they must be some sort of pod-people. The body-snatchers are invading! :eek:

Oh, that’s why! I thought it was the nervous breakdown by vexicologists trying to mix all the flags attached onto one banner:

Its not all that long ago, and certainly within my living memory, that the St George’s Cross was a huge symbol of the BNP and other associated racists. As a young English-Indian girl in the late 80s and early 90s, I instinctively would cross the road/move away from anywhere or anyone sporting the flag; the connotations of the flag were out and out racism.

Fortunately, its now more socially acceptable, and the Cross of St George has been reclaimed from the racists and white supremacists, but for the older Asian/Muslim generation, it does still stir up some uneasiness.

For my money, sticking the Welsh dragon on its green and white field in the upper hoist (like where the Union Flag goes on the Australian flag) would work just fine. Make the flag harder to draw though.

To my mind, the easiest thing would be to replace the blue of the bottom half with the Welsh of the green half. Then the Scots would get peeved no doubt though…

Just get rid of St. Patrick’s bit and that would leave Wales a way in.

Sure nobody would have a problem with that now that we’re all friends now :wink: