'ol jug ears? :dubious:
As far as world figures goes I believe Charles to be the best qualified of any to be a monarch. At least we can be sure with him as king the British Crown will never fall.
The irony. It burns.
Not really, in general.
No. There are probably more flags flying on more occasions here than in some countries…but all the time? Nah. Large office buildings, and of course any government office building, will probably be flying a flag. And many homes will fly a flag on a national holiday (especially a patriotic one, like Independence Day or Memorial Day). But if I see a car with a flag, or a home flying a flag every day…my reaction is generally “wow…what a wacko.”
garius: quite an eloquent post; I was humming “Rule Britannia” while reading it. Made me want to run out and get an English flag.
And as long as the subject of songs (Hope & Glory, for one) has been raised – I see a couple of references to “Jerusalem”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard this…Is this the poem about dark satanic mills & chariots of fire? Can somebody post a link to a recording?
Yes. Often known as* The New Jerusalem*.
Overt displays of patriotism are not really my thing, but one thing I do like about that Last Night of the Proms flag waving nonsense is that it nowadays there are flags of all sorts of countries in evidence. I’m not sure whether thirty years ago it would have been OK for German, or even Irish people to wave their flags around like loonies in the middle of London. But it is now, as we see in clips like that.
See, i’m not what you would call a patriotic person. I think the concept of patriotism is pretty much a bad thing. I don’t like investing good wishes in a symbol, whether it’s a flag, or an anthem, or whatever takes your mood. I don’t feel proud because a load of people i’ve never met did impressive things with whom I am only connected through matters I had no say over.
I say this because pretty much of all patriotic-type things, Jerusalem is really the one patriotic “thing” I know that i’m happy with. Not because of the whole possibly-Jesus-came-here thing, which is not exactly something i’d agree with, as you might expect. But because the song isn’t about how great we are, or what fantastic things we’ve done, or praising a group for the actions of some. It’s not saying we’re the best country on Earth, everyone is happy here, everything’s great. It’s saying we’re going to try and make it that. And it’s not even saying it’s inevitable, or that we’re all such great people that we’re all doing it, just that that’s what one guy wants. It’s a celebration not of perfection, but of a strive for perfection, should you so wish it. So… yeah.
I generally dislike the flag-waving nonsense of the Last Night. Only partly because of the post-imperialist breast-beating. (Yeah, somebody will even have an EU flag, which either elevates its status in the eyes of prommers to equivalence with national ones, or shows that you could brandish just about anything.) I particularly resent the way that in the eyes of many people, ‘The Proms’ is equated with the last night. It’s the least accessible and least diverse part of the whole concert series, yet is used all too often as an example of why they should be more accessible and diverse.
However, don’t take this as a criticism of the music involved - Jerusalem is a wonderful setting, especially the opening, emerging and leaving you thinking you missed the first bit, in a stadium-echo manner.
Cool! I can honestly say I’ve never heard that before. Thanks for sharing this.
(As an aside…the phrases Hope and Glory , and Chariots of Fire , are largely just movie titles here in the US, devoid of any other meaning. Probably like Twilight’s Last Gleaming or Born on the Fourth of July would be to you.)
So come on admit it.
You just loved those clips didn’t you?
Made y’all wish you were English didn’t they?
Thought so 
Is it me, or is someone in the Albert Hall waving the Vatican flag in that clip ? About 30 seconds in, just in front of the conductor ?
I don’t know if it’s you. What do you look like? But yes, it does seem to be a Vatican City flag. Fiercely patriotic, those… Vaticanians?
It doesn’t take much; I have pretty strong Anglophilic tendencies already (my grandfather being born in England).
What’s the deal with whistling along with “See, the Conqu’ring hero comes”, from Handel’s Judas Maccabaeus?
Or Handel’s coronation anthem, “Zadok the Priest”? http://youtube.com/watch?v=QCHUCMiJ_Ew&feature=related
(Note: it builds and builds… stay with at least to the two-minute mark, after the choir comes in).
Well, I don’t think it made me want to be English anymore than I already do want to–there’s a lot you blokes do right. Of course, there’s a lot y’all get wrong, too…
I just think it’s cool to see such a huge group of people singing a rather sedate (musically) hymn, and to see it done in real time in more remote locations. For the length of that song, those places are united with one focus, more or less. I think that’s wonderful. It’s like flying in a small plane on the 4th of July at night here–you can see all the communities having their fireworks displays. It’s cool to see the unity, even knowing that within 3 minutes, we all will not be as one again (and indeed, were not truly one even in the midst of song). Couple that with Jerusalem’s lyrics and it becomes sublime.
It’s just a flag. It’s not a contract to goose step to all it represents. (I am still struggling with the thought that some here can’t see how some people would feel warm and fuzzy and sentimental about a flag). But I have to say, having thought further, that I agree re the symbology (is that a word?) someone mentioned upthread. The swastika or the Confederate flag (and let’s not go through that again–you all know the one I mean. I’m not interested in historical picayune pissiness) pack huge punches and neither of them good, IMO.
I guess I just don’t see the English flag doing that. A nation of shopkeepers indeed–but a nation that spread it’s culture (good and bad) over most of the globe (is there one continent or nation that hasn’t had some touch with England or UK? I doubt it.) There is a huge history and legacy to celebrate (and to deplore, but it seems churlish to always emphasize the bad while never admitting to the good.) Perhaps St George’s Day is way to recognize the positive. And I have to laugh about the Welsh bit of the flag. How true to form!
I know I’m grateful for the English–they gave me my language, which I consider one of the most beautiful and adaptable for starters. Lewis, Tolkien, Burnett, Austen, Shakespeare, Dickens (if we must), Thackeray, Byron, Tennyson, Tey, Christie, Rendell, Waters etc. Harry Potter; Alan Rickman’s got to count for something!
Well said eleanorigby.
You may now consider yourself an honorary Englishwoman, your flag, details of the initiation rites and other assorted sundries are in the post
Well, I say. Right-o. Brilliant. Crumpets and tea in the drawing room, Billingsley and let’s have the vicar in. He can be mother.
I’d fit right in… if England were a cross between an Agatha Christie novel, Bridget Jones, AbFab and Wodehouse!
Every time I hear “Jerusalem”, I picture Eric Idle and John Cleese singing in a tea chest.
[sub]… I’m not allowed to be an honorary Englishwoman, am I …[/sub]