These are both places I’m strongly considering settling down in in the future. Which one would you say is ‘better’ overall, and why? These are the categories that are most important to me:
Cost of housing and overall living
Low taxes
Adult education services (ie technical/trade schools and career training centers)
Employment opportunities
I’m a single man so I’m not too concerned about crime. But lower crime is always better.
When you say “St. Louis Missouri” are you referring only to the city of St. Louis, or are you including the surrounding area of St. Louis County and possible St. Charles County? St. Louis County is comprised of many smallish municipalities with varying varieties of housing, employment and life styles.
Ditto Kansas City - the KC metro area includes a number of cities/towns in both Missouri and Kansas.
In short, St. Louis is an old town, and Kansas City is a new one. This is mostly apparent in architecture, traffic geography, etc. Also, St. Louis is a rather hilly town, Kansas City more flat. I always thought St. Louisans had more community pride, St. Louis evolved from a major metropolis, once one if the 4 or 5 biggest cities in America, while Kansas City barely, if ever, made the top 30. So people in St. Loujis think of it a grand old place with important foundations and enduring traditions.
This is not to say that St. Louis is a better place, Kansas City has a lot of great qualities which makes it one of America’s best cities to settle in. But despite a lot of recent bad publicity, St. Louis is a much nicer and better place than people think.
Both are in Missouri (mostly) so taxes and other governmental structures are going to be pretty close to each other. Both have a sub-campus of the University of Missouri, which is an excellent public university. The one in St. Louis is referred to as MIT --“Missouri in Town”. St. Louis has a couple of other good established universities, something essentially lacking in KC.
I’ve lived and worked in KC, and visited St. Louis often, mostly to Cardinals games, which alone are enough to make St. Louis superior.
As far as I know, housing costs are comparable for StL and KC. There is a 1% additional income tax assessed if you work within the city limits of StL, but otherwise taxes are the same. Obviously, if you live across the state line there’s differences – IL taxes have been lower than MO, and housing a little cheaper in the IL bedroom communities, but the commute to the MO side goes through a few chokepoint bridges so it’s longer.
Employment opportunities are going to depend on what you’re looking at. St Louis has a lot of biotech going on, for example. If you’re looking for general or entry level stuff, they’re probably comparable. Both KC and StL have areas where it’s difficult to afford housing on minimum wage or entry level salaries, so there’s added commute. St Louis has some public transport – busses and Metro Link; have heard complaints about the former, and the latter only services a narrow corridor. Personal transportation is probably going to be necessary. Don’t know about for KC.
St Louis is very cliquish, and difficult for newcomers to fit in. There’s some younger areas, like the loft districts downtown, with a more social environment, but it will take some work. Better off if you have interests where you can join a group that socializes. My friends and relatives that live in KC are married and mature, so not as sure about the singles social life there, but in the past it seemed not as cliquish as St. Louis.
You’d probably get better information if you shared what type of employment you’re looking for, and where your social interests lie.
For this discussion, just the city.
I’m surprised you didn’t retain Cincinnati on your list, OP. There’s great options for living in this area, including lower property taxes if you live in one of the adjoining states (IN, KY) like I do, inexpensive housing, etc.
St Louis is a pretty nice looking, I was surprised. A lot of nice looking brick homes in nice looking neighborhoods for absurdly cheap prices too. These ones for example:
https://www.trulia.com/p/mo/saint-louis/1250-gimblin-st-saint-louis-mo-63147--2060184583
https://www.trulia.com/p/mo/saint-louis/6914-corbitt-ave-saint-louis-mo-63130--2060085134
https://www.trulia.com/p/mo/saint-louis/6822-corbitt-ave-saint-louis-mo-63130--1004415423
https://www.trulia.com/p/mo/saint-louis/3019-n-hanley-rd-saint-louis-mo-63121--1044376532
The MLB team in St. Louis plays BASEBALL; the one in KC plays some abomination that was probably created by Sauron, using the same technique he used to “create” orcs out of what used to be elves.
That seems to be a useful metric in determining the superior choice.
Kansas City has better BBQ.
My vote is St. Louis. There’s a lot going on there and a lot to do. It’s a larger, older city, with a variety of neighborhoods and suburbs to choose from, and it’s a hub. From St. Louis, it’s not hard to drive to a lot of places, if you want to see the rest of the country. What criteria are you using to pick?
There has to be a better way to run the KC Tourism Board.
Did Sugarfire open up a KC location without me noticing?
Just chiming in to express shock at those prices. You can’t get a* parking space* near Seattle for what those houses are going for.
You can get houses in KC for similar. The question is (for either city) if it’s a desirable neighborhood for you. That said, I didn’t look at all of those, but there are plenty of houses in Kansas City or the suburbs for a good deal less than $100,000 that would perfectly fine for a guy with no kids.
Weighing in on this as someone who grew up in Jefferson City, half-way-ish between the two. JC is a little closer to SL, and is much more oriented to SL than it is to KC. I also live in KC (area) now, and know plenty of people in SL. Growing up, I spent much more time in SL than I did in KC.
My observation is that denizens of St. Louis are borderline fanatical, mostly for the sake of being fanatical. I have never liked the place; yes, it has it’s little bohemian gems. And there are plenty of rich suburbs if you’re into that sort of thing. But there are also vast swaths with miles of interstate passing through that are pretty unattractive. St. Louis and it’s surrounding suburbs is a pretty densely packed area. Traffic is just awful.
On the other hand, my first impression of Kansas City when I moved over here was how wide-open and green it seemed in comparison to SL, or many other larger cities I’ve visited. There are, of course, less attractive areas, but they’re relatively concentrated and don’t cover miles up on miles like they do in SL.
St. Louis grew (if you’re not familiar with the history) with small municipalities expanding outward, largely to create racially restrictive covenants. So what you end up with is tiny city upon tiny city piled on each other. The Kansas City area grew a little more organically and, to me, feels like it has larger distinctive ares instead of all the jumble.
As far as cool stuff goes, I don’t imagine you’re going to find much in one that’s not in the other. They’re both large enough to support whatever art/music/activity scene you’re in to.
So my vote would be for KC. And just for the record, I am not the type of person who forms much of an identity based on where I live, my sports team, etc. as many people do. I just think that KC is a nicer place.
Cincinnati has higher property taxes than I care for, and that 2.25-2.50% city income tax is kind of a buzz kill too. It seems that every ‘rust-belt’ city has this unholy combination of high property taxes and high local income taxes. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, and Detroit are the absolute worst in that regard.
I’ll hit the major issue first. Racial tension is a big thing in St. Louis. I’m not saying there’s always a riot on the verge of breaking out, but a lot of the problems the area faces come down to the fact that black people and white people are suspicious/fearful/antagonistic toward each other and can’t work together. I can’t speak about Kansas City, I’m sure there’s someone here who can.
While both areas have a fair amount of suburban sprawl, I think Kansas City is much worse in that regard. Part of that is because Kansas City’s airport is so infernally far from everything, and part of it is because the actual City of St. Louis is geographically tiny.
Both places have a “my taxes are too damn high” mentality. In Kansas City, people react by moving across the state line. In St. Louis they react by voting against everything that would cost money.
One thing to check is local sales taxes. Missouri’s sales taxes are supposed to be low, but they charge tax on food, prescription drugs, and other stuff that other states exempt. In St. Louis there’s a thing called a “special tax district” where sales taxes can go as high as 11-12%, even though two miles away it might be less. I don’t know about Kansas City.
Apparently all the black people in Missouri live in Kansas City as told by my drunk tour guide in St Louis
Can you get Stag beer in KC? The only place I ever see it is in the southern Illinois/St. Louie area.
I have bought Stag here before, but it’s been a few years.
