The company I work for was bought out last year by a competitor who wanted to expand into our region. As part of the buy-out/merger, they’ve been looking over our products and programs to see what to keep and what to discard. Apparently, they like what I do and want to expand it to their existing customer base. They’ve offered me a job in the corporate office in St. Louis.
I’ve never been to St. Louis. Should I take the offer? Tell me about the city.
I love the Lou. I was born there, so I’ve got a special affinity for it.
In my mind, it’s the perfect “big little city.” Everything you need, but still small enough to get around.
Laclede’s Landing, the area surrounding the waterfront in Old St. Louis, is a great place to hit the bars and watch some games. There’s also gambling boats down there, if you’re into that.
BTW, St. Louis has, bar none, the most rabid sports fans in the nation. They love their heroes. One of the reasons players like Wayne Gretzky, Mark McGwire, and Ozzie Smith came to town is because of the warm welcome they got from the fans of St. Louis.
If I didn’t love living in Phoenix so much, I’d move back.
I love St. Louis. Fun place to visit. Any place that has Ted Drewes is worth living in.
http://www.explorestlouis.com/factSheetsMedia/fact_teddrew.htm 
Be sure to go up the Arch at least once. And check out the VP (Veiled Prophet?) Fair.
I’m not a native St. Louisan. I have lived here for the past several years, and am on my way out. I don’t hate living here, but I’m definitely looking forward to leaving. I think a lot depends on where you’re coming from, what stage of life you’re in, and what you want from a place to live. I’m going to touch on the city, not the county. Others can talk about what life is like as a suburbanite.
St. Louis has a rich and wonderful history. And pretty much everything good about it is in the past. It used to be the third (I think) largest city in the US, a good rival to Chicago for most-happening place in the midwest, and the location of a lot of amazing culture. Now, there are, what, 350,000 people still in the city? It’s been dying for decades.
There is a lot of good, but you’ll get that from others. I’m going to go through the bad. The city is very poor. All the money is in the county (St. Louis city and county are completely separate entities). Downtown is dead. Stick a doornail in it. Go there after 5:00, and if there isn’t a baseball game, there’s nobody there. There are still businesses downtown that fill the streets during the day, but even in the last year or two some of the biggies have left for Clayton (the county seat), so it doesn’t look to me like there’s a recovery on the horizon.
In spite of that, I like going downtown, and there are a few bars and restaurants I hit often, but I would guess abandoned buildings outnumber occupied ones 3-1 there. There is an area on Washington where a whole bunch of lofts are going up, and evidently selling. That’s promising, and I hope it revives the area, but it’s got a long way to go. Unless you really, really like dance clubs, there’s still not a whole lot to do in that area. Plus there is no grocery store, no coffee shops, etc. There’s a lot of work to be done.
The Central West End is a really good neighborhood, except for the crime. And not big crime, but stupid, petty stuff like breaking into cars. I believe that that zip code has the highest car insurance rates in the city. I do like the neighborhood, though. Think of a miniature Lincoln Park, I guess, if you know Chicago.
Laclede’s Landing is great…if you’re a tourist or you live in southern Illinois. I would guess that if you took a poll of bar patrons on the landing, you would find that 80% travelled more than 20 miles to get there. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, that’s who is there.
You absolutely have to drive to get around here. There used to be a great street car system (this predates me by decades, so I’m going on other’s accounts that it was great). It was ripped out when the interstate highway system came in. Trying to revive it is a hot topic right now. Metrolink is good for some purposes, but there’s only one line for now, so it is limited.
Two words: White flight. Race is a big issue here, and is the root of many problems the city faces. This is certainly not unique to St. Louis, but it’s a problem. A big one.
The food here is so-so. There’s not a whole lot of competition among restaurants, from what I can tell. Places open and stay open forever. It affects the service and the food. Oh, and Provel cheese. For the love of God, can someone explain to me the monstrosity that is Provel? Disgusting. Whether or not you like it probably the litmus test for whether you’re a native.
St. Louis is a city, but it feels more like a small town. It is a very parochial place. If you meet someone, one of the first questions they’ll ask is likely to be where you went to high school. This is not just idle chatter. This is a class issue. Plus, the town has a bit of a chip on its shoulder due to a massive inferiority complex. Chicago is just up the road, and people here know it.
The airport used to be a hub for American, but is no longer. Which means that flights are much fewer and more expensive. I don’t know how this will affect business long term, but it has to make the city less attractive to businesses trying to find a location.
Ok, that’s enough bad. I’ll post some postives in a bit (yes, there are definitely positives as well). I’m really critical, in part because I think the city has a ton of unrealized potential. It could be so cool. I am really interested in urban issues and development, and I think the history of St. Louis for the past 50 or 60 years could pretty much fill a “what not to do” text. And it makes me sad.
OK, now for some positives.
First of all, it’s cheap. Housing is cheap, the arts are cheap, food is cheap. Compared to other cities, of course. It’s still going to be more expensive than a small town.
There are some truly cool neighborhoods. Lafayette Square, Soulard, the Loop, the Central West End, South Grand. Even the Hill, which I think is kind of overrated, is pretty neat. None of these neighborhoods is very large, and they each have their own character, and something to offer.
Joe Edwards. Man, if there were 20 Joe Edwards in this town, we’d be on fire. The man can do no wrong as far as I’m concerned. If this place is going to be revived, it’s going to be through the work of people like Joe Edwards. I’m watching his street car proposal closely (listen to him, Lacy Clay).
The symphony here is truly top notch. I’m a season ticket holder, and it’s fantastic. Plus, it seems to have gotten through the major budget problems. It’s a wonderful asset to the city.
Same to the Zoo and botannical garden. Top notch.
There are beatiful old houses and apartment buildings. Red brick everywhere. If brand new subdivisions are you’re thing, I’m sure you can find that. But if you like neat old houses, we’ve got 'em.
We’ve got sports. Football, hockey, and baseball. Baseball is my passion, and Cards games are pretty cheap and fun. They rarely sell out, so you can walk right up and get a ticket for most games.
Forest Park is a great park, with everything you could want in an urban park.
We have Nelly and company, for whatever that’s worth.
Good luck, whatever you choose to do. Like anywhere, if you make friends and carve out your niche, you’ll be happy here. You really should come check it out and decide for yourself if you like it.
I’m not a St. Louis native, either, but I moved here for college in 1994 and never left. I live in the Central West End, which is part of St. Louis City, and I’d have to concur with TheFifthYear that, while it’s a beautiful neighborhood with lots of character and access to a gorgeous park, the crime rate is pretty high because of a large number of car thefts and other petty stuff. And, yeah, the county does have all the money and despite the city’s best efforts, their downtown area is quickly dying.
There are a lot of good things about St. Louis, though, like Lafayette Square, which is a growing historic neighborhood, Soulard, another historic neighborhood that has a great farmer’s market, and Washington Square and the City Museum, which is basically a big jungle gym for kids and adults. There’s also Forest Park, a huge park next to Washington University and the Central West End, and St. Louis is a great town for sports fans. We’ve got the Cardinals for baseball, the Blues for hockey and the Rams for football. Clayton is also a nice place to roam around - they have a lot of upscale restaurants there and a pretty nice art fair every year.
It just depends on what you want. If you’re looking to raise a family or something and still want to move to St. Louis, the best idea is to move to St. Louis County. They have the best schools in the county, and less crime. But if you’re fairly young and looking to live in a more urban area, the Central West End is a nice place to live, though a bit expensive. And while St. Louis is trying to expand their public transportation system through the Metrolink (I believe it’s a light rail), public transport is not so good right now, so you definitely would need a car.
I totally agree with you there - I have never seen the Loop look as good as it does now! My fiance and I are so excited about what they’re doing there.
I have a like/hate relationship with St Louis.
It is very very very very very very very very very very Catholic. Expect lots of anti-abortion billboards and ‘Jesus loves you’ signs. This may not bother you. It bothers me a lot.
I’ve haven’t lived in St Louis (except for a few months a few years back) but I spend every christmas and easter there. My parents were born and raised, my extended family and my brother and his family all live there. My brother is a city dweller, most of my relatives are suburbanites.
In general, if you live in the suburbs (the County) you will be called a Bubba and treated as if you have dog dung for brains by anyone who lives in the city. (It all seems very mean spirited to me).
It’s an old and dirty city, but not without it’s charms. Walking downtown to a Cards game and stopping on the way for fresh crawfish and zydeco music is great fun. Most everything is free (the zoo, art and science museums, etc). The Loop is a lot of fun, but expensive.
The Hill is great but don’t expect to live there if you’re not Italian and not Catholic.
St Louis City proper is very small but is surrounded by other small cities (St Ann, St John, Breckenridge) which all blend together to form a big city complex. Extensive highway systems make getting to the burbs or the airport pretty simple, but the street system is pretty old and so kind of quirky. As far as I remember there are no right turns on red in the city (and no signs to tell you this), but they are okay in the county. There aren’t many opportunities to turn left off of major streets because there aren’t a lot of right angles. (For you St Louisans… think Gravois, which runs diagonally through part of the city). Don’t even try to find your way on Big Bend (doesn’t it actually cross over itself?) until you’ve had some practice.
My brother lives a few blocks from Soulard and the Busch Brewery. Stop signs in this part of town don’t mean much to St Louis drivers… just be warned.
It can be a great city. I just don’t happen to like it.
Most of the positives and negatives have been covered pretty well. One word of advice–if you decide to move here, it’s very likely that any real estate folks you talk to (especially if you get hooked up with them through your employer) will try to steer you out to west county. Don’t do it, unless it puts you near the office. You’ll have an insane drive in every morning with all the rest of the folks who have been re-located here and told that the city is scary and dangerous and Ballwin is the best place to move even though they’re working downtown. It’s happened to nearly everyone I know who’s relocated here. You don’t want to do that. If you’re buying a house, and you don’t want to live in the city itself (as already mentioned, there are some great neighborhoods in the city, and if you don’t need to send kids to public school you really ought to consider living there, imho), check out the suburbs close to the city, and/or close to your office. Even if you work way the heck out in the county, consider living closer to the city–you’ll be going against the traffic during rush hour.
You’ll get a pass on the high-school thing, since you’re not a native. There’s lots of great Vietnamese and Thai food here, especially along South Grand. And I won’t have anybody dissing Imo’s Pizza.
I have never known this to be true. In fact, I have almost never heard the term “Bubba” used for anyone in the St. Louis area. The more common term is “hoosier” and applies to city and county dwellers equally. It’s true that certain suburbs have a reputation for being more hoosiery–perhaps your family lives near some of those, and those are the ones you hear about.
This was true when I was a child, but is no longer the case. Right turns on red are allowed, there will be signs at specific intersections where they’re not allowed.
Big bend does not cross over itself–it does cross Laclede Station in two places (as well as a few other roads). But Gravois isn’t the only major street in the city, there are plenty of right angles, though it’s true there are a few roads like Gravois, and really Big Bend isn’t that confusing. Within the city there are lots of one-way streets, and streets that are two way in one place and suddenly change to one-way, which can make getting places a little confusing at first, but it’s not the end of the world or anything.
I am a St. Louis county girl born and raised and I love it here! I live in West County… you will find that no one lives in St. Louis here, you live in either The City, Clayton, Dogtown, U City, West County, South County, North County, Dutchtown, The Hill… you get the idea. People are very friendly and outgoing, there is a real small town element to this area. We have great restaurants, especially if you like Italian food (toasted ravioli and St. Louis style pizza are our specialties).
There are tons of great, FREE or very inexpensive things to do here… the art museum, the history museum, the zoo, the science center, Grant’s farm, the city museum, the arch, the landing, just to name a few. The sports can’t be beat, you have the Rams, the Cardinals, the Blues and a lot of minor leagues as well and if you have kids you will find a little league or three in every town!
We have Six Flags which is hot and crowded but the kids love it and there is a water park too, you are only a couple of hours away from the Lake of the Ozarks for some great recreation or the Meremac river for a good float trip or Branson for some country shows. You can get to Chicago or Kansas City or Arkansas if you are so inclined in under 6 hours. We have some of the best bike trails around at the various state parks and the Katy trail can’t be beat.
It’s a pretty great town all the way around!
Well I’m a little bit biased. My older brother, the deacon, lives there… so I avoid it like the plague.
But if you avoid him and the deacon spawn, it’s a wonderful place to live. Pretty, good city services, and actual seasons!
Plus, you’re only four hours away from that fabled toaster in Kansas City. 
You have your good, you have your bad.
The good
If you’re at the stage of life where you have, or want to have, a kid and you’re worried about getting the most house for the money, finding a good school and things like that, St. Louis may be one of the best places in the country.
Some first rate colleges and universities. If your employer wants you to get an MBA, there are probably six different programs available, and you can pretty much design your own schedule.
Italian food and frozen custard
Relatively low cost of living, especially in an area this size
Excellent medical facilities, as long as you have private insurance
The KATY trail, an old railroad right of way converted to a bicycle/hiking trail that stretches about 2/3 of the way across Missouri
Some really amazing old neighborhoods, an excellent symphony and a lot of free culture and entertainment
The first time you see the Arch. And about the next 500 times after that.
The bad
There’s a conservative political climate. If you’re a Democrat, it’s best to be an old-line labor Democrat. If your political leanings are farther left than that, you’ll feel out of place.
There’s a lot of culture and entertainment, but very little of it can be described as cutting edge or avant garde.
St. Louisans like to bitch and moan about the traffic, but it’s not nearly as bad as some places I’ve been to. That said, you need a car – public transportation sucks.
Sports is a big connecting thread here. Even if you don’t like sports, you’d better read the headlines just to stay in the conversation.
If you’re African American there will be some neighborhoods you’ll feel decidedly unwelcome in.
What everyone said here is pretty spot on. There is another side of St. Louis no one has mentioned, it’s called Illinois. I live in a town called Glen Carbon, near Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville. I am 20 minutes from downtown and 45 minutes from most any point in the metro area. About 1/4 (500,000) of the area’s population live in Illinois. You might want to look into living on this side of the river, depending on where you work.
If you do happen to end up here in Illinois, you still have tell everyone in the rest of the country you are from St. Louis. If you don’t, they’ll think you are from the Chicago area.
My oldest friend relocated there. He was stationed at Scott AFB across the river in Illinois, met a wonderful local gal and stayed. Living elsewhere was not an option. Familial guilt and pressure is what is keeping a lot of people there. We have to suffer and so do you!
I’ve been all over this country and St. Louis is one of my least favorite major cities. The weather is horrible. It’s just as bad as Chicago weather but it doesn’t have the benefit of being Chicago.
Much of the downtown is a boarded up no mans land. Part of it has been regentrified and they have done a good job. There is some good food but not nearly as good as in just about any other major city. Stick with the Italian and the BBQ.
The people there are sports maniacs. To the exclusion of all else. I was there when McGuire was chasing the home run record. Nothing else mattered. Not a thing. If you’re a major sports hound, you’ll find a home there.
As for major attractions, once you’ve seen the Cathedral, been up in the Arch and visited the Bowling Hall of Fame, you’re more or less done.
Haj
Forgot to mention the airport situation. When TWA went bye-bye, the death knell sounded. Most of the airport is defunct now. St. Louis in no longer a hub for anyone. These days they use it to shoot airport scenes in movies.
Haj
Not sure what you mean by this. It’s true American recently eliminated a bunch of flights, but to my knowledge, none of the airport has been shut down. In fact, the controversial expansion is still under way.
If those are the only places you visit, you need a better tour guide. See TheFifthYear’s and overlyverbose’s comments for examples.
Don’t quite get this either. There certainly is a rich Catholic tradition here, but not once have I felt, “Geez, these Catholics need to get off my back!” No one’s ever admonished me not to use birth control. The turnout for the Pope was less than expected. I do work with a lot of religious people in the county, but the evangelical ones are all Protestant. Though, the cafeteria was serving fish for Good Friday; maybe that’s it. As for billboards, I’ve seen a few religious ones. My favorites are the ones that simply say, in huge letters, JESUS, which is what I usually exclaim when I round a corner and see one. But I’ve seen far more billboards for Blues Hockey.
I’ve been here (mostly in, and just outside of the city proper) for eight years now, and I like it more the longer I stay. I’m starting to see a pattern to this thread. With a few exceptions, the people who moved here like it, the ones born and raised here love it, and the ones who just visit don’t care for it.
By the way, Homebrew, where are you moving from, and is the company in the city or the county?
I’ll be moving from a small town on the border of Texas and Arkansas (Texarkana). The company’s HQ is on Forsyth near the intersection of Maryland just off 170. If that’s city or suburb, I don’t know.
That’s still more than what I have now. When Tuna Christmas came to town, it was the biggest thing since Don Williams was here.