Out of curiosity, what did you think of the 2 part series finale?
It starts with Janeway and some of the crew home safe on Earth. They’ve all settled into comfortable post Voyager lives. Except, of course, Janeway isn’t satisfied. She wants to shave 10 or so years off the return trip with a Borg Conduit “shortcut”. She lost a good chunk of her crew and she’s determined to get them back (from the dead).
Next thing you know. She’s in a shuttle setup to return to the Delta Quadrant and “somehow” the exact time Voyager is near that Borg Conduit.
I won’t spoil it. But, it’s a massive, massive history rewrite. Not only for the crew that don’t die. But, also the crew that were shaped by those extra ten years in the Delta Quadrant. A lot of the Maquis crew were social misfits, and outcasts. That extra time as functioning crew members helped (forced??) some of them to mature and settle in responsible lives. Misfits like B’elanna and Tom Paris held pretty high ranks on Voyager. I’m not sure they’d get positions like that on Earth. They weren’t even Star Fleet Grads.
<shrug> I know it’s an old tv show. Old news. I actually liked parts of the 2 parter. Kicking Borg ass is always exciting. At least it’s a positive, feel good ending for the series. I’m just curious how others viewed the series ender.
“Equinox Part I”, my personal favorite. The USS Equinox is found to be fueling their ship with subspace creatures that poop anti-matter when set on fire. There were some great moments for all the characters and it was nice to see a Starfleet crew that was stuck on the other side of the galaxy actually having to resort to desperate measures.
Part II featured Janeway torturing the Equinox crewman and was a very sucky episode overall. The Equinox crew were never seen again so it’s possible Janeway did end up spacing them all.
I always think of poor old Joe Carey. If only he’d had the good sense to die a week later than he did, he would have been saved too! Sorry Joe, jumping the gun on Janeway means paying the ultimate sacrifice!
That dissolving episode looks excellent. I’ve never actually seen the season 2 finale.
The episodes seem to be shown in an almost random order on any channel I’ve ever watched Voyager on, so often it takes me a moment to place whereabouts we are, and that’s still early, middle or late rather than having any clue which season I’m watching.
I disagree. I think Janeway did the right thing. Tuvix had no right to live at the cost of two other lives. Sure he was a good guy, but Neelix and Tuvok were good guys too. Tuvix casually dismisses Tuvok’s and Neelix’s rights by saying they live on in him, but one could make the opposite point that Tuvix will live on in Neelix and Tuvok. In the end, two lives saved is better than one.
Janeway had a very tough call with Tuvix, but I think she made the right one, as Uosdwis stated.
Best eps:
The one where there were two closely-aligned parallel-universe Voyagers, and Harry had to cross over from one to the other as the sole survivor of the doomed one.
The one where Voyager crash-lands on an ice planet, and Harry and the Doctor have to change history to save everyone.
“Year of Hell,” as stated.
“The Thaw,” with the evil clown, and an implacable Janeway having sweet revenge at the end.
The series finale, “Endgame.” A great way to wrap things up.
Worst:
No contest. Tom and Janeway going really fast, turning into salamanders and gettin’ it on. Gah.
But there were many others almost as bad. Voyager, alas, had a very high proportion of crap: excellence.
Voyager was my favorite of all the ST series (yeah, seriously). I lived through the '70’s and the fight for gender equality, and experienced gender discrimination, so I was thrilled to see a strong, decisive, seemingly fearless woman as captain. I thought all the main characters worked well as an assemble (oh, and yes, I lusted for Chakotay). I have to agree with most of the posts re worst ep, especially the Paris/Janeway de-evolving (?) to lizards, blah, blah. Also, Chakotay and the boxing thing, and Chakotay educating the Klingon kid. Favorites: the pathological killer redeeming himself and saving the ship (I was touched when he returned from killing a Kason and he collapsed on the floor in anguish.) A favorite of mine which no one mentioned: Macro Virus - Janeway and the doctor save the day, but in the end, it’s just Janeway against the huge viruses. Over the years, I grew so tired of the female character in most tv shows and movies being weak and hysterical, and in general making things worse, so I naturally identify with and root for a Janeway-type character.
First of all, this is the first time I’ve ever heard either Neelix or Tuvok described as “good guys”. But beyond that, both of them were already gone. Tuvix was alive, he was sentient, he was intelligent, and Janeway killed him in her attempt to bring back to life two dead crew members.
You misunderstand. I can’t find the episode where Threshold is decanonized. Supposedly, in one episode, Tom Paris says he’s never been in transwarp before, which retcons the entire Threshold episode.
This is basically my take as well… but even if Neelix and Tuvok weren’t “already dead”, it wouldn’t matter. It isn’t morally acceptable to murder one innocent person to save two others. If it were, you’d be justified in murdering someone just so they could “donate” their organs.
In what way are they not good guys? Neelix is incredibly annoying, but he’s definitely good.
An accident caused two crew members to get melded into one. The two crew members were not dead, or they couldn’t have been separated from Tuvix. Janeway letting Tuvix ‘live’ would have been telling her crew that she’s not going to look out for him when they’re in trouble.
Really? Then where are they? If they are Tuvix, why doesn’t anybody care what Tuvix thinks about the idea? If they aren’t Tuvix, why doesn’t he have as much right to exist as any other sentient being?
No, it would have been Janeway telling them that she won’t get them out of trouble if doing so requires the murder of an innocent crew member.
Tuvok and Neelix weren’t dead, obviously, since they were restored to their separate individual existences at the end of the episode, and went on to live many years afterwards. Tuvix was created by a mistake and, although sentient and ordinarily worthy of respect and continued existence otherwise, Janeway reasonably concluded it could not be at the expense of two of her crewmates whose existence predated his, and whose deaths his continued existence would necessarily cause.
I don’t deny that it was a deeply regrettable decision, but it was also unavoidable. It clearly wasn’t murder, for it was without malice, not for an evil purpose, and was carried out pursuant to Janeway’s lawful authority as C.O. Maybe homicide, I suppose, but IMHO she made the right call. First in time, first in right; the needs of the many, etc.
It strikes me that this is, unfortunately, one of the very few Voyager eps worthy of continued philosophical discussion years later.
I’ll concede that, if nothing else, this wasn’t the most evil decision Janeway ever made. That was the frankly astonishing decision to assist an isolated colony of former Borg in re-creating their own pocket Collective and re-assimilating everyone on the planet - against the express wishes of most of the former drones. The bizarre thing is that the pro-assimilation camp are cast as the good guys - but there’s this scene of the anti-assimilation camp desperately trying to break down a door before the assimilation machinery can be activated, and I find it utterly heartbreaking.
I mean, imagine: You’re stranded on this rock with fanatics who, if they have their will, will strip you entirely of everything that makes you an individual. Sure, the anti-assimilation party was violent - if they’d broken down that door, they’d probably have killed every pro-assimilation person in the room. But, frankly, wouldn’t you?
Obviously they’re in Tuvix. That’s why they were able to be brought back out of him.
He wasn’t a crew member. He was an amalgam of two other crew members.
I don’t think it’s straightforward ‘this decision was right, this one was wrong;’ both have their disadvantages. To me, two real people are more important than one unreal person. This kind of thing does come up on Voyager quite often, of course, what with the doctor and other holograms.
