The ethics of ST:VGR "Tuvix"

Cafe Society
1

In this thread, ST: Voyager: what were the best and worst episodes? - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board, we’ve gotten sidetracked a bit in discussing whether or not Capt. Janeway acted ethically in ordering Tuvix back into the transporter so that Tuvok and Neelix could resume their independent existences, necessarily ending Tuvix’s.

Here’s Memory Alpha on the episode: Tuvix (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom

And here’s what other Dopers have said up to now:

**aceplace57 **
A lot of fans wanted to keep the Tuvix character and dump Neelix/Tuvok. He was actually more interesting.

I personally have issues with the decision to terminate/murder Tuvix. Like it or not he was a distinict individual. A new life created by an accident. I’m not sure it was right to kill him to “save” Neelix/Tuvok.

One of my least favorite Janeway moments.

**Laudenum **
Loved Tuvix - Janeway as implacable evil.

Mr. Excellent
Agreed. The Federation is a society without the death penalty, and here is Janeway sending a Security team to march an innocent man to his death. The thing that adds a layer of tragedy to the horror is that the innocent man is also a genuinely good guy - he understands the calculus that Janeway is making, and part of him even agrees with it, but he still wants to live. So he walks to his death with a modicum of dignity, but he’s still frightened and saddened by the last walk.

**Uosdwis R. Dewoh **
I disagree. I think Janeway did the right thing. Tuvix had no right to live at the cost of two other lives. Sure he was a good guy, but Neelix and Tuvok were good guys too. Tuvix casually dismisses Tuvok’s and Neelix’s rights by saying they live on in him, but one could make the opposite point that Tuvix will live on in Neelix and Tuvok. In the end, two lives saved is better than one.

Elendil’s Heir
Janeway had a very tough call with Tuvix, but I think she made the right one, as Uosdwis stated.

Captain Amazing
First of all, this is the first time I’ve ever heard either Neelix or Tuvok described as “good guys”. But beyond that, both of them were already gone. Tuvix was alive, he was sentient, he was intelligent, and Janeway killed him in her attempt to bring back to life two dead crew members.

tim314
This is basically my take as well… but even if Neelix and Tuvok weren’t “already dead”, it wouldn’t matter. It isn’t morally acceptable to murder one innocent person to save two others. If it were, you’d be justified in murdering someone just so they could “donate” their organs.

scifisam2009
In what way are they not good guys? Neelix is incredibly annoying, but he’s definitely good.

An accident caused two crew members to get melded into one. The two crew members were not dead, or they couldn’t have been separated from Tuvix. Janeway letting Tuvix ‘live’ would have been telling her crew that she’s not going to look out for him when they’re in trouble.

Laudenum (responding to Uosdwis)
Except that they left Tuvix exist for weeks, making friends, new relationships etc…

By the time he was killed, he was another person.

…then go to post 57 here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=584833&page=2

What do you think?

2

“Silent enim leges inter arma.” Necessity in a desperate situation trumps holding to unworkable ideals.

In this case, Janeway is stranded 75,000 lightyears from home, with a chronic resource shortage, little change of replacement crew members…and now she lacks a full-time cook. A tactical officer who happens to also be good at cooking is simply an unacceptable compromise.

Light him up.

3

Tuvix had to go

Neelix and Tuvok weren’t dead, they were essentially inhabiting the body of Tuvix. Death is permanent, their conditions were not. For Janeway to abandon those two in favor of someone else would be unethical. Tuvix’s existence was essentially keeping those 2 in a state akin to death. He’s the one who’s wrong

4

That makes no sense in the context of Star Trek in which Death is frequently a mild nuisance assuming you are important enough for a medical officer to care. And your argument is both insane and mroally repugnant.

5

Explain?

Imagine Tuvix as someone who kidnapped the two, held them hostage, and Janeway has to kill him to get them back. It’s irrelevent that he was created from the two if he wants to use his existence to justify not getting them back

6

It can be argued though that he IS those two. Pour some sugar and some water together into a glass; are the sugar and water destroyed?

Now Tuvix; IIRC Neelix and Tuvok retained no memory of what happened. So he was genuinely destroyed.

7

I think that it was a bit of a lose-lose situation: regardless of whether Janeway killed Tuvix or left him together and in doing so said goodbye to Tuvok and Neelix, she was going to have to kill or let someone die, and in her situation the two individual officers were much more valuable to the ship than Tuvix could be. So I say she should separate them, but she has every right to feel bad (if justified) about it later.

8

The episode doesn’t explicitly say one way or the other, but Tuvok and Neelix don’t seem surprised they suddenly find themselves in the sickbay. Here’s the scene where Tuvok and Neelix get separated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXaGay7seIg#t=04m53s

9

Tuvix did not kidnap anyone or hold them hostage, because that would require active participation on his part. He holds the key to trying to save them through no fault of his own, and is not at fault for refusing to be killed for their sake.

There’s a difference, though: letting two innocent men die because there is no moral alternative is unfortunate, deliberately killing an innocent man to save them is monstrous.

10

Though it was an accident, Tuvix has still hijacked Tuvok’s and Neelix’s bodies and they have the right to get their bodies back. Tuvox’s continued existence will be at the direct cost of two lives and thus he is responsible for their deaths even though he’s not at fault for the accident that created him.

11

Janeway made the best decision she could when faced with a hell of a dilemma, and she was correct in doing so. I won’t repeat my reasoning from the earlier thread, but it’s in posts 58, 61 and 65.

12

The correct answer is to allow Tuvix to live until his utility becomes less than the two original separated crewmen.

Star Trek and other ensemble adventure tales of this ilk is based on the notion that a group of individuals with unique skills and talents overcome challenges and obstacles through the use of the aforementioned skills and talents.

Thus, Buffy the Vampire Slayer has a slayer, a watcher, a witch, a good-side vamp, a vengeance demon, etc. Sometimes, party member uniqueness is built-in to the character. At the start, the world contained one and only one slayer.

But oftentimes, the uniqueness of the character is due to a combination: Seven of Nine is the only part-human part-Borg on the good side. Worf is the only Klingon serving on a Federation vessel. Thus, Tuvix is the more valuable party member, as he has the special part-Vulcan, part Talaxian attributes that the writers can and will periodically access to solve problems.

Moreover, since Tuvix is the only part-Vulcan, part Talaxian in the galaxy, his specialness is even further boosted by that uniqueness. They’re not going to encounter more of him.

So the pragmatic thing is to keep Tuvix until he either fucks up too much or they need the originals for some reason. As far as I know, the episode did not introduce a time limit on when Tuvix could be separated.

In reality, the contracts of the ensemble cast override all other considerations, so Tuvix had to disappear when the giant reset button is hit.

13

But boil away the water and you can separate the two once again. If Tuvix claims to be both Neelix and Tuvok, then those two can claim their life will keep him alive

Then think about Tuvix as some parasite who has to permanently knock out two crewmembers to survive. If some dying space worm crawled into Voyager and had to suck the life of Neelix and Tuvok to survive, while not harming them and keeping them in a state of cryostasis, I don’t think the decision would be as hard

Tuvix has no higher right to live than the other two, and without any other variables, 2 > 1

14

Tuvix is an actual, living, sapient being who was murdered to resurrect two already dead characters.

That’s the act of the VILLAIN in most stories.

Tuvix was ALIVE.

Tuvok and Neelix were not.

That gives him an unassailable right to live, and them absolutely no rights at all.

15

I can see the merit in some arguments that they should have kept Tuvix, but not when it’s based on Tuvok and Neelix being dead, because they weren’t.

16

Yes, they were.

If they were alive, they wouldn’t have had to kill Tuvix to bring them back.

They were alive, then there was a transporter accident, and then they weren’t.

When one is alive, then not, one is called dead.

17

I can imagine it - but that’s not even remotely what happened. Tuvix did not ask to come into existence. Through the fault of others, he did. It is unfortunate the other two died to make him, but them’s the breaks. He lived; they did not. But the fact you might get them back by killing Tuvix does not in any way, shape, or form, excuse the act.

At the risk of sounding silly, “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” it was a bad thing, but an accident that TuvTuvok and Neelix died. It was not in any way an accident that Tuvix died.

Unless you are a strict utilitarian, in which case you can’t agree with anything else they do on the show, because the Federation is morally wrong to kill or stop the Borg, etc.

18

They can’t have been dead if they were able to be brought back. They alive inside Tuvix.

The argument I find most persuasive is Grumman’s:

However, I’d say that neither choice is monstrous and neither choice is wonderful either. There are more practical advantages to having Tuvok and Neelix rather than Tuvix; two crewmen instead of one, two crewmen who have their own people (and in Tuvok’s case, children) rather than one crewman who will never fit in in either Vulcan or Talaxian societies, and reassurance for the crew that they’ll be saved if ever such a transporter accident happens to them.

I guess, faced with two options that are morally terrible, it’s sensible to pick the one that does at least have practical advantages.

19

I’m not as familiar with the episode in question, and Trek generally, as most here.

That said, my understanding was that Tuvix retained, in some blended form, the memories, personalities and abilities of the two. While their separate existences ended with his creation–against their will, clearly a wrong–something essential about them did live on. They weren’t dead in every sense.

So, when they “separate” Tuvix back into the two… why aren’t his memories either split between or shared by the two (or are they?)… isn’t it supposed to be the same process in reverse? But not a rewinding of time. What happened to Tuvix happened, just as the prior lives of the two happened. Their prior existence didn’t disappear, it was amalgamated and then reestablished separate again, all without loss of continuity, right? So where do the shared experiences go?
ETA: See this story for another spin on people being combined and separated again.

20

Ooh, nice link.

It would have been interesting if they had decided to keep Tuvix, like if the actor who played Neelix wanted to leave or something.