Stanley Kubrick - help! (dialogue, mostly)

Cafe Society
1

Hello brain-gains :slight_smile:

I have a few favourite directors: Wilder, Polanski (yes, I know), Kubrick, Peckinpah, Gilliam, Scorsese, Hickox (who?), Edwards - basically anyone who puts more thought into their films than usual.

Now Kubrick made some very odd films, superficially rather straight forward stories but with some crazy deep meanings bubbling underneath. I’m still not convinced by the Native American thing in the Shining by the way, seems too obvious… 2001 being a timeless masterpiece obviously…

But the one thing I really don’t get is the way he filmed his dialogue. Now in most of his films there is hardly any dialogue of note. Going for the man is meaningless bit I guess. The film 2001 I mentioned is all like “want dinner with that” while alien monoliths play God outside, but what was the reasoning behind:

Dr Bill
Yes, Dr Bill
You’re Dr Bill?
I’m Dr Bill?
Doctor Bill, Doctor Bill…
Well, Doctor Bill…
Doctor. Bill.
Doctor.
Bill.
DoctorBill
I’m Doctor Bill.
Etc. All delivered in monotone and as slowly as possible.

What was he going for?

I feel like there’s six levels of understanding Kubrick films and I’m at level 4:

  1. WTF? Idiotic film
  2. OK film but I don’t understand it
  3. I get the overall point but the finer detail is lost on me
  4. Oh, I see, there’s some really cool stuff underlying all the trivial bits
  5. Look at that, man, deep deep meaning
  6. Nirvana

Please help me though, why was the dialogue delivered in such a way?

And any other thoughts you have on the great directors are very welcome.

2

Check out the Archers; the partnership of Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger. They made a series of great films in the forties and fifties.

3

Re: 2001

Re: Great directors

Every director - including all “great” directors - has made some number of bad films. Some directors have made nothing but bad films. A smaller number of less than “great” directors managed to make some number of very good films, an even smaller number of which might arguably be called “great,” depending on one’s definition of the term. I think the lesson here is that it makes more sense to express reverence for and/or devotion to a film(s) rather than to a director, “great” or otherwise.

4

This is an interesting question.

I am a huge fan for a variety of reasons. The Shining is one of my favorite films because I’m a professional Steadicam operator. I don’t think it’s his finest film, but I have a lot of those scenes memorized.

One thing to consider with The Shining is that he was not working for an original material.

As far as the dialogue in some of his films feeling stilted or not entirely human, I would direct you to a film like Doctor Strangelove. The scenes are incredible. Satirical witty subtle layered etc.

Something else to consider is that it has always seemed to me the dialogue was not paramount. It is one element of many in a scene or an entire movie.

If the dialogue seems stilted perhaps try focusing more on the photography, lighting, body movement and placement of people in the frame and so on. Everything is incredibly well-considered and nothing is done in a random manner.

Perhaps some of the dialogue that seems false is really written that way to force the audience to focus in on other elements of the

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5

Is the alleged conversation scene in the OP from Eyes Wide Shut (which I haven’t seen since it came out)? Because it doesn’t bear any relationship to any other Kubrick film I know…

6

This is true. One thing I love about The Shining is the dialogue. Specifically, the pauses. (Remembering, not altogether accurately) Like Jack and Grady in the men’s room. I love how Jack pauses when he says, “You…were…the caretaker here.”

It works in other times, and I think other Kubrick films too, when characters simply look at each other for seconds at a time before speaking. It creeps me out in a way that I like (as far as being an audience member – if that happened in real life, I’d be seriously creeped out.)

7

I think a lot of the dialog sparkles in Strangelove because of Terry Southern.

Actually, most of Kubrick’s later films were adaptations of novels, sometimes working with the original author, sometimes not. Clockwork Orange, in which Anthony Burgess was not involved, nonetheless would not have been as fascinating without Burgess’s linguistic portmanteau lingo of “Nadsat” and the over-the-top satire of British mores. But 2001 relied on the more coolly cerebral work of Arthur C. Clarke, which focused on ideas and images.

8

I love Nicholsons non-verbal acting in The Shining; I love the way that Jack Torrances disintegration is shown through body language and facial expressions. Remember the scene where Jack is asleep at his writing table while Danny is in room 237? Wendy runs in to wake him up and Jack falls off his chair, lost and confused on the floor.

The Shining is even more brilliant because its born from the same trunk as the novel but branches off in a different direction. Kubrick removed much of the brutality while keeping the suspense and the horror.

9

I second Powell and Pressburger. I recently watched The Red Shoes and The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp and was blown away by both of them.

Here’s Martin Scorsese introducing Colonel Blimp.

Scorsese tells how much it inspired him. He says other directors who have a very high opinion of this movie include Bernado Bertolucci, David Mamet and Wes Anderson, and he still watches it again regularly.

10

The movie was Kubrick though, in the places where they disagreed. Floyd was not nearly so much of a tool in the book, and note that Clarke made him the hero of 2010.
The reason for the stilted dialog in 2001 was to show how inadequate man at our stage of evolution was to appreciate the wonders we had encountered. Moonwatcher and his crew were far more excited than Floyd and his crew. Floyd expressed some wonder, and then posed for a picture.

11

There’s a bit about Kubrick’s technique in directing 2001: A Space Odyssey in my first post here: I met Keir Dullea tonight! - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board

12

He was very good at making empty space seem threatening. Maybe that has something to do with the peculiar dialogue.

13

Another vote for Powell and Pressburger films. Some films were made under wartime censorship rules and ‘A Matter of Life and Death.’ is a fantastical story that has a strong underlying political theme exploring Anglo-American relations, which were very sensitive at the time. ‘The Life and Times of Colonel Blimp’ is also a favourite which is a criticism of outmoded military values in the face of a ruthless war. ‘Black Narcissus’ is what you might call an erotic nun movie.

Directors and writers have to be very subtle and the dialogue cleverly contrived when skirting around censors.

For dialogue, Stanley Kubricks ‘Dr Strangelove’ is brilliant with some great character acting. Peter Sellers is at his best. I love the scene where his the US president exchanging politie chit chat with the Soviet president, who may be drunk, while delicately bring up the matter of the bombers heading towards Russia. George C Scott doing a Gen Curtiss LeMay impression and Sterling Hayden as the crazy base commander are given some fine material by the writers. They managed to capture the paranoia of Cold War and the seriousnous of nuclear conflict at a time when it was a very real threat and expose its absurdities. Satire.

DeSadeski:

Govorit DeSadeski. continues in Russian, then… I’ve done as you asked. Be careful Mr. President. I think he’s drunk.

Muffley:

Hello? Hello, Dimitri? Listen, I can’t hear too well, do you suppose you could turn the music down just a little? Oh, that’s much better. Yes. Fine, I can hear you now, Dimitri. Clear and plain and coming through fine. I’m coming through fine too, eh? Good, then. Well then as you say we’re both coming through fine. Good. Well it’s good that you’re fine and I’m fine. I agree with you. It’s great to be fine. laughs Now then Dimitri. You know how we’ve always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the bomb. The bomb, Dimitri. The hydrogen bomb. Well now what happened is, one of our base commanders, he had a sort of, well he went a little funny in the head. You know. Just a little… funny. And uh, he went and did a silly thing. Well, I’ll tell you what he did, he ordered his planes… to attack your country. Well let me finish, Dimitri. Let me finish, Dimitri. Well, listen, how do you think I feel about it? Can you imagine how I feel about it, Dimitri? Why do you think I’m calling you? Just to say hello? Of course I like to speak to you. Of course I like to say hello. Not now, but any time, Dimitri. I’m just calling up to tell you something terrible has happened. It’s a friendly call. Of course it’s a friendly call. Listen, if it wasn’t friendly, … you probably wouldn’t have even got it. They will not reach their targets for at least another hour. I am… I am positive, Dimitri. Listen, I’ve been all over this with your ambassador. It is not a trick. Well I’ll tell you. We’d like to give your air staff a complete run down on the targets, the flight plans, and the defensive systems of the planes. Yes! I mean, if we’re unable to recall the planes, then I’d say that, uh, well, we’re just going to have to help you destroy them, Dimitri. I know they’re our boys. Alright, well, listen… who should we call? Who should we call, Dimitri? The people…? Sorry, you faded away there. The People’s Central Air Defense Headquarters. Where is that, Dimitri? In Omsk. Right. Yes. Oh, you’ll call them first, will you? Uh huh. Listen, do you happen to have the phone number on you, Dimitri? What? I see, just ask for Omsk Information. I’m sorry too, Dimitri. I’m very sorry. Alright! You’re sorrier than I am! But I am sorry as well. I am as sorry as you are, Dimitri. Don’t say that you are more sorry than I am, because I am capable of being just as sorry as you are. So we’re both sorry, alright? Alright. Yes he’s right here. Yes, he wants to talk to you. Just a second.

DeSadeski:

Continues in Russian. Gradually becomes alarmed, then… Das voydaniya… Rests phone on the table before him.

Muffley:

What… what is it, what?

DeSadeski:

The fools… the mad fools.

Muffley:

What’s happened?

DeSadeski:

The doomsday machine.

Muffley:

The doomsday machine? What is that?

DeSadeski:

A device which will destroy all human and animal life on earth.

Muffley:

All human and animal life?

This is one of my favourite bits of the script and it not really a dialogue, Sellers timing is everything. It is world away from the annoying ambiguity that Kubrick sought in 2001. I hated the ending though the film itself was a visually arresting. The best bit in it was HAL computer who was wonderfully articulate and quite insane.

14

It’s the Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, not Life and Times - although he is not a colonel and doesn’t in fact die.

And no, that’s not at all what it’s about. It’s about youth and old age, it’s about the young becoming old, and how the young and old judge one another. It’s about changing times and culture. It’s about an unshakably good, decent, generous and kind man living through it all. It’s about how mistaken first impressions can be.

The great achievement of this movie is that it takes a character who appears at first sight to be a pompous old fool (a ‘Colonel Blimp’), and over the course of the movie completely transforms him into a real person the viewer deeply likes and cares about.

15

Terrific performance from Roger Livesey in Colonel Blimp.. He was also wonderful in A Matter of Life and Death and She Knew What She Wanted, the latter being one of the lesser-known Archer films.

16

Do you mean I Know Where I’m Going? :smiley:

17

Yeah, that’s what I get for not looking it up. I KNEW it was a stupid title…I just picked an alternative stupid title.

Fine flick, though.

(I also sometimes mix up Black Narcissus with Black Orpheus. Two of my favorite movies, with nothing whatsoever in common. One has sexy nuns, the other has sexy salsa dancers.)

18

This is quite possibly my favorite bit in the entire movie. I love the emphasis he places on the word “hydrogen.”

19

I don’t mean this as a thread shit, but I don’t get the reverence for Kubes. I like The Shining enough but I absolutely don’t get (or like) 2001. I’ve watched it a couple of times but it just doesn’t make sense to me. Molasses.

20

I’m not a huge fan of 2001 either. But there’s more to his filmography than that, and his veneration is influenced by all of it, not just the one movie that you might happen to dislike. Full Metal Jacket alone has a huge cult following among veterans and military people and has provided an endless supply of pop culture references. A Clockwork Orange is peerless in terms of its unique world-building and proprietary aesthetic, even leaving aside the plot. The Shining is rightly considered one of the best horror movies of all time. Barry Lyndon is aesthetically beautiful and represents the absolute pinnacle of cinematography in ambient light. Eyes Wide Shut - while perhaps lacking the critical acclaim of most of his other work - I find to be a masterpiece of creepy and surreal atmosphere.

Kubrick was simply an amazing director from all objective standards of cinematography. It will be a very long time, if ever, before there’s another director who comes close.