“Spock didn’t meet Captain Kirk until after he became captain of the Enterprise.”
Where do they mention this in the TV show? Or was it one of the movies? Or do they mention it at all?
If it’s mentioned in canon, it would be in the two-part episode “The Menagerie.” This is the only place in TOS we see a different captain of the Enterprise, and thus would be the only place it might come up.
I don’t recall it ever being established in canon, though.
Outside of canon, I think you’re looking at the book Best Destiny, but that would disprove the statement, IIRC.
60s Tv shows were light on backstory. When Kirk & Spock first met is not mentioned, which is why it has been fleshed out (in contradictory ways) in the novels (which are not, of course, canon). The series seems to imply that Spock has served on the Enterprise much longer than Kirk, as he served under Pike, and Kirk was obviously elsewhere at that time.
I sense a movie subtext to this question, so I’ll comment. I think people are vexed by Kirk & Spock meeting as youngsters because the idea seems just…I don’t know…silly. Or rather shoe-horned and cliche. Frequently stories that take an established property and reimagine them require all the major players to have met early in their youth and to be involved in one another’s lives in infinite, incestuous detail. TV’s Smallville is an example.
People are also annoyed by this because the interaction between the characters in the original tales usually work best if they have never met beore that time.
I don’t believe it is ever explicitly stated in the show. Rather, it is an assumption based upon two conditions.
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Spock served on Enterprise under Captain Pike. That was before Kirk was around. Kirk wasn’t shown aboard at that time (you know, Ensign Kirk, the brash, braggart Navigator who later became Russian).
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Many people go to new jobs and meet new people, as opposed to an office full of people that they already know. Same thing for military ships.
Does this preclude that they met before? No.
a. Kirk may have met Captain Pike while a junior officer. If dealing with the Enterprise at any time, he would likely have met Spock. Hung out in bars chasing skirts together? No, but met.
b. There is nothing that says Spock stayed on Enterprise the whole time. He imght have been on Enterprise, then transferred off, then transferred back with a promotion.
c. Some militaries give newly assigned Captains at least some leeway on the officers. When Kirk got assigned Enterprise, it is conceivable he was given some flexibility in the command staff, and slotted in a couple officers he knew from before. Not saying he and free reign, but could suggest a couple names. Especially if they were due promotions - like, say, Lt (jg) Sulu had been serving on a ship as assistant helmsman and had all the hours in and such, but the helmsman on his ship was still there. He could get promoted to another job on the same ship to be full LT, or he could transfer to another ship to be senior helmsman. Since Enterprise was available and Kirk put in the recommendation, Starfleet agreed.
Of course, it isn’t likely that Kirk would get a clean sweep on the command staff. Existing officers already on board when Pike leaves would have to do something, and many might still be on board at their current rank/position.
d. If the Enterprise got a serious mauling, which at the end of which is why Pike was promoted, and most of the crew were transferred away during refit/repair, then there might be a more clean slate to fill.
It still seems unlikely that Kirk would have had a previous adventure with all the officers to end up on his ship. That stretches credulity a bit. Even with the above taken into account. If Enterprise were a newly commissioned ship, maybe Kirk could hand pick his officers. But typically even in that scenario there are plenty of officers within the fleet who are due for promotions, and there are always limited slots. Especially in a peacetime fleet, unless Starfleet is so immensely unpopular that it has regular staffing shortfalls. That was never suggested in the ST universe. Starfleet would always have a few people that they want on the ship that don’t fit the Captain’s requests.
I haven’t been following the movie hype much. I know what Kirk, Spock, McCoy, & Uhura are in it; what about Scott and Chekov? I dearly hope the latter is not, because he’s a good 10-15 years younger than Kirk and I can’t see shoehorning him in; Scott also seems problematic, as he (like McCoy) is a good 10 years older, and it doesn’t make much sense for Kirk to be obliged to take command of the ship if presumably Lt. (jg) Scott is around. (The story’s taking place when Kirk’s in his early 20s, right?"
It also seems odd to me that the Romulans are the villains, as a major part of the premise of “Balance of Terror” is that the Federation hasn’t encountered the Romulans in a while and that they don’t actually know what they look like.
Ah well. I guess I’ll just assume this part of the same alternate history created when the Enterprise-D went back in time to the Cochrane launch–the one that gave rise to the Janeway/Archer continuities.
Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov are all in the movie, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Rand, Kyle, and Chapel are, too.
So the story seems more a reimaginging ala the recent Battlestar Galactica than an untold story, if Chekov is there. And Chapel definitely makes it a reimagining, as she is almost unique in TOS in being a recurring character whose introduction to the others is definitely shown.
Chapel, Rand, et al are just guesses based on the rest of the big names being in the film. I could very well be wrong.
I hope so. Chekov is bad enough, but Rand was established as being very young, very early 20s, which would put her practically in diapers at the time of the movie.
A lot of the interaction between Kirk and Spock in the early shows involves Kirk getting used to him. Spock’s loyalty is pretty well established, though at the time of Menagerie you might say he is still more loyal to Pike. Kirk never mentions having served on the Enterprise before, btw.
For what it’s worth, the cast list on IMDB does not iclude a Yoeman Rand or Nurse Chapel. (Majel Barrett Rodenberry did still do the computer voice before she passed away.)
In the second pilot it is clear that Kirk asked for the Gary Lockwood character, who thought he should be first officer.
Picard joined the Enterprise D with a full complement of officers.
It may be peacetime, but at the time of TOS things are pretty dangerous, so there would seem to be a lot of openings.
Especially in the red shirt division.
I think Kirk was genuinely shocked in Menagerie that Spock would betray him for any reason, even Chris Pike. It takes a long time for him and McCoy to believe it; they’re sure that Spock has some clever plan in mind. And, of course, Spock IS being loyal to Kirk by stealing the Enterprise as he did. At the end of the two-parter, Kirk asks Spock why he didn’t ask for help, and Spock replies that he knew Kirk would say yes and thus face the death penalty with him. So their friendship is pretty well established at that point.
Well, yeah. But the Enterprise-D was freshly commissioned at the beginning of the series; Picard was her first C.O., Riker was the first exec, and so forth. And Picard clearly hasn’t served with Riker before.
Regarding the E-D officers: it’s established in dialogue that Picard knew Crusher and LaForge befoe coming aboard; he specifically arranged for Geordi to be helmsman, and I think he always had an eye to making him chief engineer eventually. (Clearly he couldn’t stand the two or three CEs he had the first year.) I’ve always assumed he knew Data beforehand too; he treats Data as a person from the get-go without blinking, and I always thought that, other than Crusher, Data was the one member of the senior staff he would unstintingly call his personal friend rather than his trusted lieutenant. I don’t think he knew Troi, Worf, and Yar except from their resumes.
Actually, I could get behind the idea of Kirk and Spock meeting much earlier in their careers than when Kirk took command of the Enterprise, based on TOS canon. Early on in the series, beginning in the second pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before,” Spock has called Kirk “Jim.” Vulcans never use first names unless they are good friends with the other person. I couldn’t imagine Spock calling Kirk “Jim,” even if he were ordered to, unless they were friends of long-standing. Even in the episode “Menagerie,” while Kirk called Captain Pike “Chris,” Spock addressed him as “Captain Pike,” so while Spock may have had admiration and respect for Captain Pike, and probably considered him a friend (as shown by Spock violating one of the Federation’s strictest quarantines by taking Pike to Talos IV), it wasn’t the same level of friendship that Spock and Kirk shared.*
*Yes, I know friends don’t always necessarily use first names. See Wilson and House, for example. And it’s possible to have separate professional and personal friendships. Spock undoubtedly idolized Pike and saw him as the very model of a Starfleet officer and couldn’t bring himself up to Pike’s level enough to be casual with him. The point I’m trying to make is, Vulcans are cool and proper with most people and seldom unbend enough to call someone by their first name.
Major spoiler from the upcoming movie:
Time travelers manipulate history to deliberately create the Kirk & Co. miracle-workers crew years earlier, to deal with another time-travel created crisis
Do you mean Gary Mitchell?
You have a point there, though it’s not necessarily a Vulcan cultural thing. The TOS crew were like the characters of House; despite their friendship, they generally use last names or nicknames rather than given names, simply because that’s Starfleet culture. Sulu & Chekov are best friends, but they never say “Hikaru” or “Pavel.” We never in the course of the series or movies hear Uhura’s first name.
The exception is McCoy, who uses Kirk & Chapel’s first names. But he’s the one member of the senior staff who didn’t go to the Academy, and I assume that’s where the habit is established.
It sometimes struck me as odd on TNG that officers both junior and senior to LaForge called him “Geordi” from time to time–particularly when Picard did it, since he addressed even Beverly by her title or surname except in private.
Aesiron
Guest Join Date: Dec 2002
Gary Lockwood was the name of the actor.
I agree. This new movie just seems too Muppet Babies to me.
:: nods ::
Would your workplace have the same dynamic if you and your co-workers had all been in college together?
Actually, Sulu didn’t even have a first name in the original series. Vonda McIntyre gave him the name “Hikaru” in the novel “The Entropy Effect.” And it wasn’t spoken on-screen until Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. So it’s one of the few things from the novels that have made it into official canon. But you’re right, it could also be Starfleet tradition. Scotty never called McCoy “Leonard” or “Bones” even though they’re supposed to be drinking buddies off-duty.
As for TNG, different century. Maybe the culture of Starfleet changed in that regard. It was common for Picard to call Riker “Will.” Or maybe it was the culture of the particular group of officers on the Enterprise-D. There were families on the “D,” so maybe things on board were just generally more relaxed despite Picard’s reputation for sternness.
I don’t know that I can get too hung up on canon with TOS. Both Kirk and McCoy were mystified by where Spock’s internal organs were located, that he had mind-melding abilities, and, most famously, how he mated. Since Vulcans were the very first interstellar species to have made contact with Earth and since T’Pol turned out to have served 10 years on Enterprise, one would have to think McCoy, having a Vulcan under his charge, would have at least some knowledge of what Vulcans are made of.
In short, continuity is like the Prime Directive. We can respect it, but we don’t really have to follow it.