Star Wars: Episode IV

Your proposed plot twist certainly is interesting but I think I will stick with the original story. Introducing tragedy into the equation would work against its epic tone. The idea of such stories is to introduce a hero and generate an empathic feeling towards him by the spectators. As the adventure progresses the sympathy towards him grows and the audience ceases to be passive and gets involved in the story.

They start living the adventures through the hero’ s eyes, they join him in his journeys and experience his perils as if they were truly their own and, after surviving all the struggles, they rejoice in “ecstatic joy” when, at the climax of the narration, the hero comes full circle an accomplishes his task. Thus, a tragic ending would not only be deceitful but anticlimactic.

Remember this is fiction we are talking about, we are not trying to convey the inner workings of society in a veridical, precise way; we are not here to present a sociological thesis or provide a realistic scenario that depicts the chaotic nature (dark side?) of society. Those elements could very well be included in the narrative but they should not govern it. Instead, the idealistic themes should be the ones providing the guidelines around which the plot revolves.

Why? Because the real objective of such stories is to provide a brief, yet scintillating, escape from the inertia and boredom of the real world. I assure you that this objective is better served if the illusion is complete, that is, if by the time the closing credits roll on the hero has defeated the evil villain, the lovers have conquered all obstacles and reached the pinnacle of their passion and the lawyer has suffered an ideological metamorphosis and decided to serve justice instead of his egotistical instincts (nah! That last one is stretching it too much :D).

In any case, movies reside in the realm of fantasy and as such they should be fun. If we want to experience dullness and frustration, we can easily encounter them in real life. Of course more relevant subjects should and need to be treaded by movies. That is fine and dandy, as long as the expectations raised by the motion picture don’t betray the audience; the finale should be truthful to the overall tone conveyed by the movie, whether it is romantic, tragic or thesis-oriented. If it isn’t, that only indicates a lack of coherence and cohesiveness between the way the story is narrated and the form in which the action is deployed.

Case in point: Message in a bottle and City of angels; their anticlimactic, audience-misleading finales being the fundamental reasons why both movies SUCKED big time.

May The Force be with all of you!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by quasar *
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Some interesting points here, quasar, but I disagree a tad with a ‘tragic’ ending being ‘deceitful’. It’s not like there’s an unspoken contract the writer and the audience sign at the beginning of an epic. You tell it like the story demands.

If the story had demanded Luke’s death the series probably could have handled it very well, if Lucas & co didn’t fallen asleep at the wheel. Solo could have easily taken over as the main hero (and frankly, he does already, for me - David Brin wrote an good agrument on this once in Salon).

Workable example: Luke dies at Vader’s hands at the end of Empire, but rescues Han in the process. Third movie becomes Han and Leia’s vengeance (i.e. instead of Luke confronting his dad, Leia does - the ‘there is another’ line of Obi-Wan’s becomes rather apt). Instead of a weak third movie, we get a corker.

Tragedy can work.

Geez,quasar, you must have hated the ending to John Carpenter’s The Thing! :smiley:

Nonsense! It would make the epic richer! Besides, if you want to “identify with the character”, why not identify with him while he’s boffing Leia? :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

I just saw The Thing this weekend. Wasn’t that good, wasn’t bad either. Didn’t mind the ending, it was to be expected, in accordance with the general tone of the film. Besides, I didn’t identify with the characters.

Got a question, I heard yesterday that there is an alternate ending to the movie in which, after the shot of Kurt Russell talking with the other survivor, they show a dog walking away in the distance (Fallen, anyone?) If true, that would really add a lot to the movie and, of course, present a premise for a sequel.

Does this shot really exist? Is there a director’s cut version available in which it is included? Does the original film have a similar ending?

I meant that when tragedy is gratuitous and unexpected it isn’t justified. It totally ruins the enjoyment of the movie. Imagine, for example, how fucking sick would it have been if Aramis and company had died at the end of the The Man in the Iron Mask, in the scene where they charged the Kings musketeers. It would have made no sense. D’Artagnan’s–sp?–death, however lamentable, was justified and served to exalt his heroism. It worked in favor of the movie’s storyline, not in its detriment.

Maximus’ death in The Gladiator was not only justified but brilliant, it rounded nicely his search for inner piece and pointed out his posterior spiritual reunion with his family. Harry Stamper’s death in Armageddon was also acceptable; the movie revolved around saving humanity, he was an instrument to a bigger, more relevant cause, he accepted his death, he chose it, he died a hero.

The common bond that ties this examples together is that the tragic element derived logically from the argumentation posited by the movie, it didn’t contradict the emotional flow of the action, if anything, it enriched the story by using tragedy as a mean to consummate the hero’s valor and devotion to his cause.

Foolish mortals! Of course there’s going to be a third trilogy! Do you really think United Artists (or whomever) are going to let this cash cow lie fallow ('scuse the mixed metaphor) after Episode III? Compare: Paramount and the Star Trek franchise.

Even if Lucas nixes the idea, well, he’ll be dead someday just like Roddenberry.

No way - it DEFINITELY had Episode IV on it when I saw it in 78, because I turned to my dad and asked him why. He had no answer but he later discovere dfor his inquisitive 8 yo that it was going to bve part of a nine part series.

Way.

Speaking of bringing some trqagedy into the series - I’ve often heard that Harrison Ford wanted Han Solo to die at the end of Return of the Jedi. From what I understand, he didn’t like playing the character much anyway.

I seem to remember hearing that originally Endor was supposed to be the wookie homeworld (the wookies being oppressed and used to build the death start) which would’ve made the whole battle scene much more logical and believable. 7ft oppressed slaves with nasty tempers.

But apparently Lucas wanted a cute character for merchandise sales…

Shades of Jar-Jar. He should’ve stuck with ripping off Kurusawa.

20th Century Fox doesn’t have shit to say about it. After the success of “Star Wars,” Lucas made sure that his contracts for “Empire,” “Jedi” and all future films ensured that he and he alone retains exclusive rights to all SW names, characters, situations, merchandising, and pretty much everything. Fox didn’t even pay for “Phantom Menace”; they only distributed it. It was essentially the most expensive independent film ever. And I will bet that he takes steps to make sure that nobody has any power to do anything with the franchise after his death, at least as far as feature films.

I like the SW franchise, and I enjoyed “Phantom Menace,” but I think Lucas was really fudging on “Jedi.” Given the setup between Luke/Leia/Han in the first two movies, there is no way he planned for those two to be siblings all along. Uh-uh. I don’t care what he says now. I think it was a last minute decision, and furthermore, its presentation to the audience (through dialogue? with dead Obi-Wan???) was handled so clumsily I can’t help but think it was a major screwup.

quasar, regarding “The Thing,” I have the collector’s edition DVD (it’s one of my favorite movies), which includes a commentary track, and extensive documentation, and there is never an alternate ending mentioned.

You have to remember that Star Wars was not widely released at first. The “Episode IV” modification was added for the nationwide release. So while many of you remember reading “Episode IV” when it originally opened in your area, the film had already been in limited release in other cities for some time.

I like that movie too pldennison! But when I saw it in the theatre all those years ago, I have a distinct memory of the ending mentioned by quasar, where you see a dog walking away, that turns to look at the camera. That’s not in the DVD version then? Am I going crazy?

Johnny L.A., good one! (referring to «Besides, if you want to “identify with the character”, why not identify with him while he’s boffing Leia?»)

I’m still waiting for Star Wars VII. I’m guessing that by that point, George Lucas will be senile and the only characters in the movie will be people from Jar Jar Binks’ species (whatever they’re called) and Ewoks. Hopefully they’ll battle each other to the death and destroy each other’s home planets.

I also always had the impression that the brother/sister relationship between Luke and Leia was an afterthought.

Actually, Endor was the Wookie planet. They were so oppressed that it stunted their growth and gave them dyslexia, thereby turning them into Ewoks.

A friend of mine pointed out that TPM has a lot of things in common with ANH- for example, the shootout in the palace at the end of TPM, in which Amidala et al shoot a hole in the wall and jump through it, is very much like the shootout in the corridor on ANH, when Leia et al shoot a hole in the wall and jump through it. Anakin blows up the enemy space station, just like Luke. The mentor dies in a lightsaber duel. Etc, Etc.

My question is, what’s the deal with this? Specifically, did Lucas just run out of ideas? Did he mean this humorously? Is it meant to have some sort of mythic resonance with the second trilogy?

My own idea is that Lucas should make a stand-alone Star Wars movie based on Yojimbo.

You know, it just occurred to me that people complain (rightly so) about how lame Jar-Jar was, but was there any computer generated character in TPM that wasn’t annoying? The only one I can think of was the battle droids, and even they became annoying to the extent that they got any individuality. The only non-lame CGI I can think of was Captain Tarpalis, against whom we must balance:

  1. Jar Jar
  2. Watto
  3. King Meesa Big-Fat Amphib’ian
  4. Q-tip head, the Jedi
  5. Q-tip head, the Pod racer (of a different species)
  6. Sebulba (come to think of it, his pod was actually cool, and it was computer generated. Does that count as a character? It made such a cool sound…)
  7. All the other pod racers
  8. All the other CGJ (Computer Generated Jedi)
  9. The announcer(s). I cringe to think of it even now. But that reminds me- Jabba is always cool.
  10. The pit droids.

Admittedly, the CGI ET’s were not so bad, but then we have to balance them against all the con-CGI aliens, like:

  1. Baby Greedo
    2.One could debate whether Darth Maul is lame. I thought he was kind of cool, but my wife calls him Candy-Corn Head.
  2. That cheering-heartily-yet-completely-expressionless guy who appears so prominently when Anakin wins the race.
  3. That angry-yet-expressionless guy who yells at JarJar.
  4. All the expressionless people in the stands of the pod race.
    They can CGI old footage of Greedo talking in the special edition, they can CGI JarJar throughout the entire movie, but they can’t make a cheering alien in the exact center of the frame have a little facial expression?

FYI, the two Q-tip heads (Yarael Poof, and Gasgano) were the same species (Quermian), Yarael Poof the Jedi having two of his four arms hidden under his robe. And furthermore, all the Jedi Council were real and present as seen, and were not CGI.

Personally, I liked Sebulba and the Pit Droids.