So it’s pretty much clear through the prequel films, and to a lesser extent the OT, that Darth Sidious/Palpatine orchestrated pretty much all the events that happened - even in the final battle he had planned everything leading up to it, and would have won if not for Darth Vader.
Basically my question is, what of his plans went wrong? Other than him thinking Darth Vader couldn’t be turned back to the light, what happened that he did not forsee or bring about himself?
Well he still would have been killed. Vader turning on the Emperor had no effect on Han getting the shield down OR Lando and Wedge taking out the core and destroying the Death Star. That’s something I really like about ROTJ. The big epic battle and the personal conflict of the protagonist have no bearing on each other. If Luke had failed to turn Vader, the Rebels still would have won and if the Rebels had failed to get the shield down and lost the battle, Luke still would have turned Vader.
“His overconfidence was his weakness.”
That and he didn’t know about the twins. He didn’t know until Vader told him, obviously, when this kid “Skywalker” pops up, but even then, he didn’t know about Leia. That was his downfall-that and the fact that Vader still hadn’t eradicated the part of him that remained Anakin Skywalker.
That, and, upon making Endor the base for the shield generator, the Empire didn’t exterminate the Ewoks. It was the whole C-3P0 is an Ewok god/stormtroopers are ineffective against logs and rocks thing that let the Republic commando team take over the Imperial base on the planet.
Push You Down’s right, he was wrong in that he believed the Shield Base would not be taken. I’d count them blowing up the DS as part of that mistake, though; if he knew the shield would come down, I imagine he would have made other plans.
I don’t think him not knowing about Leia (and Luke, at first) was a mistake; he just couldn’t sense them, while DV, being their father, could. More a case of limited abilities, rather than an actual mistake. I think the only mistakes we’ve seen so far are;
He didnt completely turn Anakin.
He didn’t think the shield could be brought down.
He’s overconfident.
And thinking about it, he’s not really THAT overconfident; I mean, the shield didn’t come down till after he was dead, and DV’s betrayal was at his death, so up until the very end of his life he’d made no mistakes. Considering he was manipulating pretty much the entire galaxy, plus thousands of Jedi at one time, I’d say he’s allowed to be confident.
Mistake? Yeah. He should have leaked the location of a dummy shield generator building and guarded it with that legion of troops. Or a backup shield generator, or something. That way, even if the Rebels break through the defenses, they can only capture and destroy a worthless building.
Instead, he gave out the location of the real shield generator, like a fool, and assumed his minions would handle it. Don’t leave anything to minions. He should’ve learned that lesson when he realized his minions hadn’t got 100% of the remaining Jedi.
He also shouldn’t have trusted Vader, who said of Luke “he will join us or die.” It so happens that Luke did neither at Bespin. If I’d been the Emperor I’da put that one in the Deeply Suspicious column and figured that Luke and Vader were working together on something.
That and if you saw Revenge of the Sith, remember, Palpatine’s master was pretty over-confident-until Palpatine offed him. He probably figured Vader would try-it’s what the Sith do.
True. But quite often the master wins. IIRC correctly, there was an interview with George Lucas where he said that prior to the leg/arm cutting off and the replacements of whatever internal organs, Anakin had about 200% the force potential of the Emperor. Afterwards, it was about 80%. Palpatine probably thought Vader wouldn’t attack because they both knew the Palpatine was the stronger of the two.
Any other mistakes besides the shield generator and Vader not being totally evil?
I would add his incredible (to me) tossing away of his loyal minions…I’m thinking of Count Doo-Doo (sorry) here.
However the Duku(sp?)character was portrayed, I think the guy was burning his seed corn; i.e., those that were loyal to him and helped get him to where he was; he set himself up for a fall by relying too much on one minion.
I guess, secondarily, trying to KILL your right hand man’s son in front of him was pretty dumb, too. But wha do I know? Maybe that is accepted Sith behavior.
At least one novel actually notes that Vader, had he given in truly and completely to the Dark Side, would have been able to repair his body (and presumably grow to his full Force power again). Nifty.
Looking at the Prequels, which did have a far better storyline as far as palpatine was concerned, he made a number of oversights, but they were comparitively minor and he was able to overcome them.
For example:
Ep 1:
It’s likely that he intended to kill Amidala: some references in the novel imply that, as does Qui-Gon’s line in the movie. Killing Amidala would make it impossible for the Trade Federation to legalize their move ex post facto. This would allow Palpatine to get that “strong sympathy vote” he needed, and ride a wave of popularity into power. Groovy.
But, Palpatine was able to bargain her escape into power, making the accidental failure into an advantage. Having Amidala there meant he didn’t have to make any negative statements himself, and look humble while also being righteously indignant.
Episode 2:
Again, he was trying to off Amidala, for mostly the same reasons. A pretty young Queen dying suits his purposes a lot more than that same Queen heading the peace faction. He failed, but was able to insist that she hide out, killing her effectiveness.
Also in Episode 2, he probably didn’t wish the war to start at that exact moment. Obi-Wan’s locaitng Jango was not part of plans, surely, but it was also irrelevant. By the time the Jedi could do anything about it, the war was ready to start. Again, the Jedi’s interference played into his hands. Jango attempted to capture Dooku - but Dooku had committed no crime. Great propaganda for Dooku. Republic ‘agents’ (Anakin and Amidala) commit assault and murder, blah blah blah. Then, Jedi and Republic troops make an “unprovoked” attack. None of it is the truth, exactly, but it’s close enough that it makes great Agitprop.
And of course, as Chancellor, he could use that very same propaganda to talk about heroes nobly sacrificing their lives blah blah, while clamping down on the news to keep them from showing treasonous materials.
Yeah, now that you mention it. His biggest mistake was actually showing up at Death Star II to gloat over his victory. Essentially, he was bait to lure the Rebels to attack at a time of his (the Emperor’s) choosing. He could have accomplished the same thing by telling the Bothan spies he’d be there and sending some schmuck in a dark bathrobe instead. Not even the Jedi — of whom there were none left but Luke — could sense that Palpatine was the Sith Lord. He could’ve stayed at home and run things via hologram, as usual.
If he had foreseen Vader would bring Luke before him, Vader could just as easily have taken Luke via hyperspace to some other planet to confront the Emperor.
Only ego made the Emperor want to oversee the end of the Rebellion personally.
Ah, this would be a good thing for him, but her living is ok too; she’s indignant enough from the attempt on her life and the death of her people to call for a vote of no confidence in the current chancellor, opening the way for him to take the seat. No Amidala, he’d have to have found a different senator to make the call, which (considering he’d go for the easiest to arrange) would mean more trouble for him than if Amidala lived.
Again, not a mistake; as you said, he got her to hide out, so either way it’s a victory for him.
Plus, without Amidala at this point, he’d have nothing with which to entice Anakin later on. It’s only the offer of being able to save her life that stops Anakin killing him; and we know that Palpatine was aware of their relationship for a very long time. He wouldn’t have known that she could be used in this way, but he would have recognised her as a useful pawn. Remember, by this point, he knows he wants Anakin as his pupil, so this is going to take priority above anything other than his “taking over the galaxy” plan.
Palpatine wanted the Jedi to get involved. With them flying around trying to be of use, it kept them from stopping and thinking about what was going on. By the time of RotS, the Jedi know that the Sith Lord is someone among Palpatine’s retinue; if he’d given them any time to think about it they would have started to suspect him.
Plus, with the Jedi investigating, they’re going to find out that there’s a conspiracy. This would seem to be bad, but again, it’s what Palpatine wants. If the Jedi start attacking governmental figures or commanders of the army, he can use it to show the Jedi are trying to take over the Republic (and, in fact, this is what he tells the Republic occurs after Order 66).
When was this?
Overconfidence again.
Actually, I think it was the whole “kill your father and take his place at my side” bit that really blew it for old Palpy. That’s what triggered the rage in Vader, not any residual Anakin. Vader got pissed, and made up his mind to off the Emp. Luke’s whinging was just a distraction to the Emperor…Vader just tuned it out and bided his time until he could frag his boss.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! 
Sorry, I meant Obi-Wan.
Anyway, that was my point. Palpatine was able to manipulate Amidala, but he would rather have offed her. Amidala was always a wild card, and possibly the only thing which prevented his total victory in the end. Had it not been for her, Anakin might nmot have been wounded. He wouldn’t have had Luke. One way or another, Amidala was the lynchpin which led to Palpatine’s downfall.
One detail I like is how, at the end of Episode 2, there’s really no way that the Jedi can stop Palpatine from getting his clone army. Remember, the idea of creating an army was very controversial. But when Yoda took the clone troops into battle to rescue the Jedi, this had the effect of legitimizing them in many people’s minds. After all, if they’re good enough for the Jedi to use, then they can’t be too bad, right?
However, if Yoda had refused to use the clone troops, then the Jedi would have been slaughtered in that battle. With their numbers decimated, the Jedi would be unable to effectively police the galaxy. Then, the Senate would have no choice but to authorize the creation of an army, whether they liked it or not. The alternative would be anarchy.
Yoda’s comments at the end indicate that he knew that his actions had played into the Sith Lord’s hands, but obviously Yoda decided that it was better to keep the Jedi intact, and hope that they could stop the Sith later.
I agree he didn’t make any major mistakes in the prequel - he played the Jedi like suckers. In RotJ he made lots.
First, he should have known that Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark side and eliminate Palpatine. There are only two Sith, remember? If Luke becomes #3, someone gotta check out.
Second, once Luke was there, he thought he could turn him like his father. Big mistake, and why Luke is the real hero of the three first movies.
But the biggest one - he should have concentrated on the battle! He looked out the window at the pretty lights, but as far as I could see no one bothered to tell him that there was a battle around the shield generator. If he was so smart, he could have ordered a fighter or Star Destroyer to burn out the Ewoks from the air. (Don’t cheer now.) I think that’s why the stuff on the DS II was so important - Luke pinned down the only guy with brains in the Empire.
He also should have made sure they built a railing around the bottomless pit.
What of Palpatine’s plans went wrong, in no particular order:
2.) Thinking he had completely turned Vader misunderstood that Vader could be turned back exactly the way he was turned: by appealing to his desire for immortality and to protect Amidala.
3.) Thinking that he could turn Luke without knowing Luke. P knew Annikin well, and he was easily goaded emotionally and P knew all the buttons from knowing him for years. P wants Luke instead of Vader because Luke is going to be more powerful and isn’t damaged goods. Luke also has far less personal motive to hate Palpatine like Vader does. But Luke is not emotionally adrift and playing with mixed loyalities like Annikin was. Luke knew who he was and wasn’t going to turn, and P should have known this after Vader described the Bespin battle.
4.) P does not know that Luke still has help from Obi Wan. It is not clear that Vader ever told him that Obi Wan’s death didn’t involve a body. He can assume that since Yoda got away from him that Luke has access to Yoda. P does not know that Yoda has also passed and seems to discount that Yoda can help anyone. It is not clear to people who don’t know that Yoda is, after RoftS only about 20 years away from dying. Someone that powerful with the force who is no longer in the dark can make an awful lot of trouble.
5.) P did not now about Luke and Leia. If they had both been trained by Obi Wan and Yoda since birth in a safe place, then the four Jedi could have laid their own traps. Luke and Leia could have operated in the open under false names (Leia did) and had surgically altered Yoda and Obi Wan helping them as long as they stay a planet away from Vader and P, which should be fairly easy in view of tens of thousands of planets to hide on. P’s moves would be publicly broadcast, so staying a few steps ahead of him would be easy. Vader would be detectable and they could either stay a few steps ahead of him if he came onto a planet, or Yoda and Obi Wan could double team him. Remember, Obi Wan beat Vader when he was at full strength.
6.) Not finishing off Obi Wan and Yoda while they are on the run. Big mistake reasons above here and in others’ posts.
Why would P want all that political power and responsibility? Wouldn’t it interfere with his quest for magic power and suck up all his waking hours?
Not understanding that Obi Wan and Yoda were joining directly with the force after “dying” and not considering what influence they might have. It appears to have been only inspirational in the short run, who knows what would happen in thousands of years, but in the short run, it appears to be a small power, not the “if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine” that Obi Wan, that big liar, boasts of.
There must be some building code in that galaxy banning railings around bottomless pits.
What went wrong there? He did succeed in getting hideously deformed. That was his plan. Remember that scene? It was his own lightning that did that to him; the BMF with the 'saber was only deflecting it, not producing it. If Palpatine hadn’t wanted to be hideously deformed, he could just turn it off. But, by allowing himself to be mangled, he could go up in front of the Senate and say “See what he did to me?”. A Sith master is not about to let some pain and anguish get in the way of good propaganda.