I’m starting a what-if thread that isn’t about Tolkien. The world must be ending.
Having caught the tail end of Revenge of the Sith last night, it occurs to me that the two big fights–Yoda versus the Emperor and Obi-Wan versus Whiny-Boy–were ill-thought. That’s not a surprise, of course, as the Jedi are clearly morons. But suppose they had had an atypical moment of clarity? Suppose they had decided to attack the Emperor together, or Whiner together? What might have happened then?
They succeed against that one. Then, the forces of the entire Empire are mobilized against them and the surviving Sith goes into hiding.
-Joe
Considering the fact that Yoda almost beat Palpatine on his own, a combined strike of Yoda, Obi-Wan and a batallion of Bail Organa’s personal guard (he’s a King, you know he’s got one) would have wiped the floor with Anakin’s daddy.
What if Obi-Wan & Yoda had decided to double team Vader (or Palpatine)?
I’m guessing some hot, gay spit-roast action. Yoda would probably have to do that levitating thing.
I don’t believe Bail had a personal guard on Coruscant, or whatever the hell the planet’s named.
The Rebel Alliance was headquartered in Alderran before Vader went zappy zappy with the Death Star, I’m sure Bail could have rounded up a few troops on short notice to prevent a Sith Lord from wiping out the Jedi Order.
4 minutes. I can’t say I’m surprised, but I wouldn’t have expected anyone to go that route until at least the 10 minute mark.
Wow, I have to go back and watch the movies again; I don’t remember Yoda fighting anybody but Dooku.
Since Yoda was pretty evenly matched against Palpatine, having Obi-wan on his side would probably tip the scales in his favor. However, Palpatine’s main power isn’t light saber combat but psychological warfare. Obi-wan, having just seen his best friend butcher a bunch of people, would probably be emotionally vulnerable.
On the other hand, Yoda could’ve easily taken down Anakin on his own. It took Anakin focusing all his power to beat Dooku, but when Dooku was fighting Yoda, Yoda was clearly just toying with him. Obi-wan was probably holding back for most of the battle with Anakin, but Yoda knew from the beginning that this child was bad news and wouldn’t hesitate to fatally discipline him.
Either the emperor stays in power or Anakin, who the emperor thought was going to be even more powerful than him takes over without the crippling injuries Obi caused. They split their forces because their only chance of a favorable outcome was killing both of them, killing one would be pointless.
The problem with your Obi-Wan assertion is that several times, Obi-Wan says that Whiny has surpassed him as a warrior. I think they were both conflicted during that battle, and I see Obi-Wan’s victory being largely due to luck; it could easily have gone the other way (which might also ahve been just luck.)
I don’t deny that Yoda & Obi-Wan together could have defeated Emo Vader, but I’d say trying to do so would have been stupid; the political power wasn’t in his hands in the first place. They’d have been brighter to go after Palpatine together, but even that seems dicey. That could only have happened after Palpatine’s address to the Senate, and his declaration there that he was now Emperor was met with thunderous applause. Why wouldn’t civil war have erupted once two of the last Jedi assassinated the legitimate leader of the Republic/Empire?
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight was a cinematic fiasco as it was. I mean, from the landing pad, to the conference room, to whatever that thing was hanging over that molten river, leaping through showers of flame to a floating platform at the top of a lava water fall, and then it’s “give up, I am slightly uphill from you!”[sup]*[/sup] Seriously, what the fuck?
Throw in a CGI muppet and Lucas could have made an epic pig’s breakfast of the thing.
He was conning Anakin into doing something stupid. It worked.
-Joe
“Oh, shit, I better go hide in a desert until this all blows over.”
Don’t forget, though, that Mace Windu defeated Palpatine in true combat.
Break it down:
Three jedi vs Palpatine leads to two jedi going down like punks and Windu schooling Palpatine.
Yoda vs. Palpatine: Yoda ends up fleeing.
Kenobi vs Skywalker: Kenobi wins and costs Skywalker an arm and a leg.
The important thing to take away from these is that the only true, to-the-death fight is Windu vs Palpatine. I always got the impression that Yoda was keeping things going in the Senate to give Organa enough time to prepare an escape for Padme and the others (including possibly that poor youngling). While he’s have taken a win if it came he was targeting escape and exile as the primary outcome.
Kenobi vs Skywalker shows us overtones of the ‘sharper than a serpent’s tooth’ thing. Kenobi spent a great deal of it hoping not to have to do what resulted but when he’d given up on recovering Anakin he cut him down.
But again, it’s the Windu/Palpatine matchup that’s the important one. There’s an argument to be made that Mace Windu is the man directly responsible for the Emperor consolidating his hold and Skywalker. When Windu gets Palpatine down he plans to kill him. Skywalker pleads for Windu to arrest him and have him tried as Jedi don’t murder. When Windu argues for such Skywalker gives up on the Jedi then and there for the last time and kills Windu. That’s the moment he’s lost.
Had Windu said ‘You’re right, Anakin. He must be stopped, controlled, and punished. Tie him up.’ Anakin wouldn’t have finished his fall to the dark side and the Sith wouldn’t have been ascendant, Kenobi would have spent much time with his friend trying to help Anakin redeem himself, and Luke and Leia would have known their parents.
Bastard Windu.
I think it was just a run of bad luck they had.
Palpatine wasn’t that strong. Samuel L Jackson even had him down (although that could have just been an act to win over Anakin). Yoda just got unlucky. Yoda just chose to fight him right when Anakin was killing baby jedis. Had they fought at any other time, Yoda would have kicked his ass.
Obi-Wan and Anakin seemed to be evenly matched when it came to light saber skills. Obi-Wan was just smarter, calmer and more experienced. With that being said, he probably should have finished him off.
So I think they made the right choice but got extremely unlucky.
Actually, Windu had three or four helpers in that fight.
So, it was four or five Jedi going up against Palpatine.
-Joe
Umm…Yoda didn’t fight Palpatine while Anakin was killing baby Jedis. That was long over with.
Hell, he even watched the video of it.
-Joe
Who went down in the first few seconds of the fight without so much as swinging their sabers. That was a one on one match for 99% of the time.
yeah but those guys died immediately. Not sure why he bothered bringing them.
Hmm I’ll have to watch it again then. I have it pictured in my head that Yoda left the fight after he felt some disturbance.
He seriously underestimated Palpatine and thought numbers would cow him. But I don’t think he can be blamed for it; until that moment, Palpatine had been careful to keep his formidability under wraps.