Luke mentions off-hand in the first film that he used to fly a T-16 back home. Various background fluff (the EU, the Internet, etc.) indicate that the T-16 is produced by Incom, the same company that produces the T-65 X-Wing. The T-16 basically being a civilian market speeder that Incom produces which has a similar control layout to some of their military offerings. (The toy spaceship Luke can be seen playing with at his home is the unfinished prop that they originally intended to use in the film to establish his flying credentials for the audience).
From what we’ve seen in the films alone, Incom seems to be prodigious producer of small craft (they also built the ARC-170 “Hex Wings” seen in Episode III)
If Rey is related to anyone from the previous trilogies, I’m betting on her being a relative (descendant or fifth cousin or whatever) of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Just because it’d be kind of cool.
This article makes some very good points that I agree with.
It was worth seeing this one just for the IMAX 3D experience, as a carnival thrill ride it was great. But I’ll be watching the next ones at home, if I bother to watch them at all.
Speaking as a swordsman, there is also the fact that an inferior swordsman can hold off a much better one for a long time, as long as they can keep retreating–which is exactly what Rey did through much of the fight. As she kept moving, Ren’s resources–energy, concentration, and blood–continued to ebb. When she was finally cornered, she shut her eyes, and we heard the Force theme. My guess is that in that moment, she opened her mind to the lightsaber for the first time since her initial traumatic contact with it. The lightsaber was imprinted by its two previous wielders (or so we might infer from her vision upon touching it), both of whom had been trained to wield it. She let the Force guide her, no longer relying on her own skill, but on the skills of Anakin and Luke, lingering in the weapon they once wielded. Neither was a master when they held that lightsaber, but their skills, combined with Ren’s weakened condition, were enough to enable Rey to prevail.
In fact, that could explain a lot of the preternatural competence of Force-sensitives. If the Force retains patterns left behind by previous sensitives and Force-users, then anything they’ve used could have “echoes” of their skills imprinted on it, and a sensitive could be guided by those traces. I believe it’s been argued that Force was actually strong with Han, though he never actively used or acknowledged it. Could the Falcon itself have guided Rey in flying it?
The ultimate expression of this would be the Force ghosts, active, aware patterns encoded in the Force…or would it? What about the way history seems to repeat itself when Force wielders are driving it? Could the entire cycle have become embedded in the Force itself, nudging both Light and Dark Side users along established paths?
Just saw it, loved it. In regards to two of the main criticisms:
JJ Abrams was weighed down a little by the legacy of the prequels. Much as a band often makes an album that’s back to basics after they’ve experimented a little and flopped, the franchise had to assure fans that they knew what a good Star Wars movie looked like before taking any big chances with the story. This one hit all the right notes, updated with some awesome stuff that we didn’t get a chance to see in the original trilogy: a light saber battle in the snow? Awesome! A storm trooper humanized? Awesome! I’m actually a bit annoyed that they gave that away in the trailers, because that opening scene where Finn kneels over his dying comrade and gets blood wiped on his helmet would have been such a powerful moment and a departure from the norm if we didn’t already have an idea that one of the primary protagonists had been a storm trooper before we walked into the theater. But the most spectacular were the battle scenes, instead of in space, mostly within the atmosphere of planets, in the daytime. These ideas were great ways to give fans a new look while telling a very old story.
The other common criticism which I think is actually a plus is Kylo Ren. Yes, he’s a wannabe and he’s immature, but it’s fairly obvious that they intend to make him into a much more intimidating guy in the next movie. He’s basically Anakin if Anakin had turned completely to the dark side in Episode 2 instead of at the end of Episode 3. I knew as soon as the seen with Han started that it was going to end the way it did, and I also think that his redemption is an open question. Like I said, this movie was to show Star Wars fans that they still know how to make good Star Wars films. They probably won’t follow the standard template as much in the next two movies. Maybe he’ll be redeemed, maybe he won’t. And I think we’ve seen the last of planet destroying battle stations.
One thing I would like to see more depth in is the politics. So the Rebellion won and the Republic was established. The First Order is trying to restore the empire. So why is the First order basically rampaging around the galaxy like they own the place, and where is the Republic? Do they call their military “The Resistance” for old times’ sake and it’s weaker than the First Order, or is the Resistance only tangentially connected to the Republic? What happened in the last 30 years for the forces of fascism to grow so strong again? Was the leadership of two sith lords again all it took? If so, Luke’s running away was unconscionable unless the First Order was already so strong that as in the case of Obi-Wan, there was no way to stand against it. But that was years ago and the Republic still stands, so if jedis are such game changers in this universe, Luke’s remaining in the fight could have been decisive.
Good point about Luke’s running away being unconscionable, while the Republic still stands.
I like Rey (I think she and Finn salvaged the movie from becoming a total fiasco), but in fairness I think your logic is off here. James Bond gets into the thick of the action because he was not only carefully chosen and highly trained, but his government specifically sends him into the most difficult assignments. Whereas Rey just happened to have all this action come to her.
It’s like the difference between watching what Seal Team Six can do in Zero Dark Thirty and not finding it terribly shocking since, after all, they are the highly trained best of the best of the best, finely honed for this kind of mission…and something like War of the Worlds, in which Tom Cruise plays a Joe Sixpack crane operator who just happens to turn out to be a total ninja badass.
I’m just not clear on why so many people seem to be saying “okay, they did a mashup this time, but that clears the decks for them to go totally original in the next movie”. If you look at the movies that chronologically occur after the rise of the Empire, three of the four have involved some version of a Death Star attack. So is this hope the triumph of hope over experience? I mean, maybe the next one will be more of an Empire Strikes (flash)Back; but why would we think Disney’s going to pivot away from the billion-dollar strategy that has served them so well so far, and go with something totally new and original? I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.
Love this idea.
Yup. I guess the way I pick it apart is different from the people you’re seeing. I’ve said that if I’d never seen a Star Wars movie before, this one might seem fucking awesome. But I have seen them all, and I don’t care for endless remixing/mashups, so only the new elements (mostly Finn and Rey), plus some of the visual effects, held my attention.
That’s the only part? I was feeling that way starting in the opening minutes. A crucial-to-the-“Resistance” set of plans (map, whatever) is also sought by the (whatever the Empire is now, I forget), and as they close in, it is furtively hidden in a cute little droid. Droid wanders across the desert and gets found by a young person who has no idea of their connection to the Force (and likely familial connections to other characters as well).
Then there’s Han Solo sheepishly trying to talk his way out of trouble as his angry clients, that he left in the lurch, close in on him. (This one actually bugged me more than most of them, as I just don’t see this being the state of “General Solo” thirty years hence, except as fanservice.)
The battle against the TIE fighters after the Falcon lifts off was practically beat-for-beat taken from the one Luke and Han had in the first film. Although in this case, Rey inexplicably played the grizzled veteran, and Finn the whooping and hollering, “cocky” and excited rookie, despite the fact that he’s a military veteran and she’s a youngster who’s lived on a sand planet her whole life.
Rylo Kiley and the young general replay the dynamic of Vader and Tarkin from the first film. And they go report to a hologram of the true ruler, just like Vader used to.
There’s skulking around an Empire facility, alternated with shooting storm troopers; the facility also has a big crevasse in the middle, just like the Death Star. Which comes in handy for the father-son confrontation over a giant dropoff, as in ESB.
Interesting. This is not an aspect of these films that I pay close attention to; but my teenaged son, who also loves sword-and-sorcery fiction, does–and he reported that the light saber duels in the prequels were the best. I guess he liked what you’re calling a “weird form of dance”. <shrug>
The prequel battles were martial arts styled, which would actually make sense given the formal training that young jedis received at the time.
Whereas the training Luke gave Kylo Ren was probably more straightforward and aggressive. I’ve found that the light saber battles in all the movies made sense given the training and age and abilities of the fighters.
Sorry to hijack, but I just want to express my opinion that the oft-repeated trope of the lethal unpredictability of an unskilled fighter is bullshit.
Might have SOME limited applicability in some limited circumstances, but not in these particular swordfights. As unpredictable as any fighter might be in their choices, they are all subject to the laws of physics. Someone running at you brandishing a weapon overhead has committed to a course of action which an experienced fighter could very readily respond to in several ways. They aren’t going to suddenly be coming at you from the side, thrusting at your midsection. You know EXACTLY what is coming, and have PLENTY of time to choose among several options. Probably the LEAST effective response would be to commit yourself to a hard block of the incoming overhead strike.
And they only get to retreat, if you haven’t caused enough damage early on.
Yes, the force was strong in Bruce Lee!
I don’t think anyone mentioned it yet, but there was one sword fight (I forget which one of many - I think it was in the forest near the bar) where the one fighter was struck and knocked down repeatedly. Was anyone else reminded of the Black Knight in The Holy Grail? Proud to have cracked my wife up by whispering, “It’s only a flesh wound.”
I fully expect him to be a complete and utter bastard in the next films. He has made his choice now so I think we are going to see him killing and destroying at will with no doubt and no apologies. An insecure dweeb was a good choice for this movie, but I also get the sense that the actor could portray somebody whom the audience is now really going to detest!
Okay - here’s one I don’t think anyone has really addressed head on. The chief guy in black - Darth Jr./Leia and Han’s kid - that’s Kylo Ren/Ben, right?
A lot of folk in this thread seem to be - um - making up excuses for how he really isn’t all that experienced or capable. But if that is the case, how does he get to be the head of a planet-sized weapon. (And to me, the implication was that he had some greater authority.) How did no one else identify these potential shortcomings/weaknesses?
Was it simply because the force is strong in him? The bloodline from Leia? Why were the bad guys not able to train him more effectively? Are there no other bad guys who are more capable? He impressed me as essentially a young middle manager in training. Maybe given his first senior management assignment running a branch outlet… Is that what this death planet was?
Where is the supreme commander hologram (Snoke?) actually at? How much of the galaxy do the bad guys (or the good guys) control at this time - as opposed to during the prequels (Senate?) or original 3?
How big of an area does this death planet address? Just one solar system? Once they drained the sun, did they need to motor over to another solar system? But the implication I got was that they were able to send their solar blast from afar into a distant system. After all, the fighters had to warp to get from their base to the death star.
I feel this is another aspect of my not really grasping the scope of whatever conflict is going on in these films. In ST, at least, they divide the galaxy into quadrants…
Is it possible that Rey picked up some skills from the memory of the light saber?
Actually her fighting skills is the most easily explained – telekinesis and mind control are a bit harder (though it took her 3 tries to get mind control - and storm troopers may be easier to control since they are conditioned to obey)
Rey’s powers don’t actually bother me - but I would not have complained if they were 10% less strong either.
I eagerly anticipate the DVD so we can freeze frame the flash back sequence.
I asked all the same questions when he first showed up and claimed to be in charge. Thing is, I was assured that I didn’t need to see his identification.
All kidding aside, I assume that The Force is strong in Snoke, and that Kylo Ren is the only Strong-In-The-Force type he could scrounge up to play apprentice – and, sure as the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force, the important thing to Snoke is playing Emperor and having Kylo Ren play Darth Vader, only this time we’re maintaining a united front, dammit; that’s top priority.
By being liked by the supreme leader. Going from the whole fascism angle, this makes sense–people are promoted not due to competence but due to whether the guy in charge likes them or not.
But to be clear, Kylo Ren wasn’t in charge of the weapon, the other guy (the young general) was. Kylo Ren instead seemed to be more of a kind of special ops guy answering directly to Snoke.
One of my favorite parts of the movie that had the audience chuckling: Kylo is having a meltdown and starts tearing apart a room filled with computers and such. Quick cut to two stormtroopers coming around the corner outside the room. “Uhhh… yeah, let’s go grab a beer, he’s fucking PISSED!” “Roger that!” (Of course that’s not real dialogue but that’s what played in my head at the time.)
One of my least favorite parts: Han grabs Chewie’s bowgun and blasts some stormtroopers to Hell and back. He then says to Chewie, “This thing is awesome!” or something to that effect, with a look of seemingly authentic astonishment. Really? These two have been gallivanting across the galaxy for over 30 years together and Han had never fired the thing before?
It made very little sense yeah, but apparently people need things spelled out for them or they miss them completely. They wanted to establish that the bowcaster was extremely powerful and way better than some regular laser, and simply showing it tossing stormtroopers around apparently wasn’t enough (though it should have been). The fact that even THAT wasn’t enough for plenty of people just reinforces why it was necessary. They could have made Finn be the one who is amazed by it i guess though.
Neither of the Bobsy Twins looked as though they should be in charge of anything more complicated than a high school play. Both were laughably incompetent which I guess doesn’t say much for Boss Hologram either.
All right, as long as I’m asking for the overall structure - who the hell is Snoke? I mean, just general ideas. Where does a “supreme commander” come from? Is he even a recognizable species? How does he establish/maintain his authority?
For me to accept these simply from watching the movies, they need to make SOME kind of sense in terms of my personal experience/knowledge of how power is transferred and maintained - either IRL or in books/movies. I figure the most sensible explanations are either that he rose through the ranks of the dark side and either was given or seized power. Or he came in from “outside”, and was able to seize authority through his amazing powers.
Is he sui generis? Or the Snokiest of a bunch of Snokes?
