You have to be able to see the biggest one, though, right? If you can ram enemy ships through hyperspace and blow the hell out of them, why has no one ever done that before? Particularly in Return of the Jedi when they had capital ships to oppose the new Death Star but couldn’t penetrate its shields and they were desperate and all getting blown up by its main gun? All it would have taken was a line, a single line spoken in a quiet moment on the salt planet, maybe someone asking “Why hasn’t anyone done that before?” and Leia maybe explaining that it only worked because of the hyperspace link they were using to track the ship or some such bullshit handwavium. Just an acknowledgement that it wouldn’t have worked all the other times in the series that it would have made sense to use it, and that it won’t likely work again.
Of course, that’s not even addressing why Vice-Admiral Purple Hair waited until half the Rebels had been killed before she rammed the enemy.
They don’t have to. It’s not a requirement of the TOS and you’re wasting our time harping on it. Either talk about the movie instead of trying to discredit me or I’m going to ignore you.
I’m not trying to discredit you, I’m asking you to not discredit everyone that doesn’t agree with you. I realize that the TOS doesn’t mandate that you acknowledge that others also have valid opinions, but I just consider that part of being a decent person and positive contributor to the board. I’ve said multiple times that I respect your opinion, but somehow you interpret anything I said as an attempt to discredit you? I’m beginning to see why we had such vastly different experiences watching this film…
Not everything the Rebels did in the original trilogy was explained by a character on screen either. Why did they need an X-Wing to do a trench run to blow up the Death Star? Why didn’t they just line up a laser gun from a ship miles away pointed directly down the shaft and just fire away. That entire scene made no sense and was unnecessary. It was just to show Luke in a dog fight with Vader and give him a chance to use the force to save the day. Total plot hole. Why doesn’t that bother those that hate TLJ just as much as the light speed kamikaze scene?
I’m going to say this one last time, and then I won’t be addressing your posts on whether or not I value others’ opinions anymore. I’m not going to preface everything I say with “I realize your opinion is a valid one and I treasure you as a unique, individual snowflake to be celebrated by all, and I hope my having a different opinion than you doesn’t diminish your own justifiably towering self-image.” I am giving my opinion. If I didn’t think it was correct, I wouldn’t have it. You are just as free to give your opinion, and I wouldn’t expect you to try to adjust your opinion because someone else might disagree.
Late to the party on this one but: Saw the movie for the second time this week (I got to see an early pre-release show as part of a vendor event the first time around). I haven’t read the thread, though based on some of the YouTube reviews I’ve seen I can guess what a lot of it says.
For my part, I really liked it the first watch through. I liked that it wasn’t what I was expecting and I actually didn’t have a good idea of what was going to happen next at any given point. The movie seemed geared to foiling expectations. I liked that…I thought a lot of the fan theories and hype were over the top and while that’s what I expected to see I’m glad they did it the way they did. I really loved the first and last part of the movie, especially the scenes with Luke in them…I thought he was the star of the show, but that might just be my nostalgia talking.
I didn’t really love the middle of the movie, especially the secondary plot on the casino planet…that seemed to be Disney trying to get Disney style filler into the movie for marketing purposes. On the second screening, I really disliked that part of the film. They could have cut that entire plotline out, as well as the silly ‘we need a hacker, so let’s take a shuttle to some rich guy planet and find one!’ and just had Fin and Rose and maybe others try and sneak onto the ship to disable the tracker directly. Would have made the movie more streamline and tighter, IMHO. But it’s a fairly minor issue and overall I still liked the movie. It will be interesting to see how they tie this all up in the final part. At this point, it’s hard to even guess where they are going…and, really, the third movie is what will make or break this one. If it’s bad then my guess is this one will be perceived as bad, if it’s great then this one will be accepted as a solid successor trilogy to the series, especially if the final movie resolves some of the issues (for instance, was Kylo lying or mistaken about Ray’s parents? They were both wrong, after all, about what they saw wrt both the future and the past…i.e. the confrontation between Kyle and Luke was a matter of perspective, and both saw something different than what actually happened).
Wrong. Addressed in Star Wars: “Unfortunately, the port is ray-shielded so you’ll have to use proton torpedoes.” And the way the exhaust port is constructed prevents a direct shot from outside, not to mention the fact that they have defense shields to prevent that and the fighters only succeed because they penetrate those shields physically. “We’re passing through their magnetic field.” Quote from the movie. You not paying attention isn’t the same thing as a plot hole.
Again I never once asked you to alter your opinion or anything close to that. I’m not sure where you are getting all that from since it seems to bear no relation to anything I’ve posted, and frankly reads a little unhinged. How many times do I need to say I respect your opinion before you will actually be able to see that sentence? Are you reading a different thread than I am?
So does “Goodbye” mean that you are leaving the thread or something? I’m confused.
Sure. Only I don’t remember every moment in every movie, so I wasn’t sure it had never been done before, though I didn’t think it had.
I also wasn’t sure that I didn’t catch the reason. Or that it was because the shields were down. Or that it was because the ship was bigger.
I also think that’s something that could be explained later. Or it could be like virtually everything in Star Trek (which I’m historically a bigger fan of than Star Wars) that gets used once and is never spoken of again.
I remember very little about Return of the Jedi and have no intention of rewatching it. So this is exactly what I mean about people who are really into Star Wars immediately thought “PLOT HOLE!” and people like me who have watched almost all of the movies but who don’t really remember every detail just shrug and say “Oh, that’s new? I didn’t know that” or “I wasn’t sure, because I haven’t seen that film in twenty years” about most of it. I’m simply used to universes like Star Wars and Star Trek not always making perfect sense, and as long as I like the general storylines and the characters, I roll with it.
Oh, and just to be clear, I don’t consider that a bigger plot hole than something like “We have to line up the rebel base on the moon which is hidden behind this here planet, even though we could just blow up the planet and take out the moon that way.”
Science fiction is full of plot holes or stuff that doesn’t make sense from the naval armada space battles to aliens with blood exactly as acidic as the plot demands to cybernetic limbs holding up a car instead of tearing out of the shoulder in a bloody torrent. When someone criticizes the plot issues in these movies, it’s not a challenge to answer for every problem in other movies, it’s a statement that the filmmakers failed to engage you in a way that you could look past them. Waving around some “butwhaddabout…?” from another film doesn’t actually answer for the fact that the viewer wasn’t enchanted with the film in question as they’d need to be to let it pass. The filmmakers didn’t make the magic happen for them.
I think it will be really hard for any of the main storyline SW movies to be perceived as “great.” There is a strong tendency for people as they get older to elevate the stuff they saw/read/experienced as a kid above new stuff and to approach things that can’t have that new car smell in a much different way.
(One of my brothers, for example, essentially claims that there has been no good music released since 1975. Everything since then has been either terrible or a knock-off.)
Fans of a particular universe usually are going to either have to give up or give in. Stop trying to force things into the molds you want, or stop caring so much. Sometimes only the latter makes the former possible.
I don’t think that’s an argument against raising plot holes in other movies. I think raising the plot holes in other movies can demonstrate that it’s not really the plot holes that are the problem.
As I said upthread, I didn’t love TLJ even though it seems like I should have. I liked the major plot turns, I liked most of the characters, etc. But for some reason it just didn’t hang together for me. My thought on that? It’s just as likely to be a change in me as it is to be a change in the films. I have the same reaction to Marvel movies now. Some of the magic is gone and they are now meh. I don’t think the movies are getting worse (with the exception of Guardians of the Galaxy 2, which I thought was terrible), I just think that I’ve moved on.
Nah, I’m good. I’m cool with all of these issues with the OT, just like I can look past any similar nitpicking in the new ones and enjoy them for what they are.
Did they say it couldn’t? If the standard for a plot hole has to be “Well, they didn’t say why not” then they have to say why not. That’s not my standard, mind you. My standard is “If I can’t shrug it aside, it’s a plot hole.” Purely subjective. It’s all about how well something appears to me to hang together and pretty much nothing about how logical the plot really is.