Why wouldn’t someone who is seemingly stronger than the force than even Palpatine was not be interesting? In addition to his own personal history the other important question about him is why Luke didn’t go after him back in the day (before he started his Jedi training school). Did Luke think Snoke was just to powerful and that he would likely lose in a duel?
Why should it?
Anyway, if they had given him a backstory, it only would have made it more disappointing when he died. The fact that he was such a blank slate made me enjoy his death more, because I wasn’t wasting any time wondering what kind of enemy he could have been. Look at it this way - if he had been more interesting that Kylo Ren, then Kylo couldn’t have replaced him halfway through the saga.
Purely from a narrative structure point of view, they handled his character exactly right.
I think it probably had more to do with the fact that Snoke had a massive fleet and wasn’t about to just let Luke walztz into his throne room and challenge him to a duel.
They’d already left without him. It wasn’t until his talk with Yoda that he realized he could help Rey.
I thought it was good. Not amazing or the best in the series, but good.
I’m disappointed in how Luke was handled in the end. I don’t want fan service, but I did think he would light up his light saber and fight at some point. His death was weird and poorly explained.
Good:
- Chewbacca eating the Porg in front of the Porgs
- BB-8 remains awesome
- General Hux being the butt of tons of jokes
- Finn and the new girl were great
- Luke’s final approach to Kylo Ren was tense and great
- The big fight with Rey and Kylo Ren vs. the guards was awesome
- Snoke’s death was very satisfying
- Opening battle was intense and amazing
- Luke visiting Leia
- Chewbacca breaking down Luke’s door
- Big fight between Phasma and Finn
- Light speed straight through a ship was cool
- Yoda was crazy and funny again. Loved that!
Not so good:
- Luke’s death was not handled well enough
- Casino sequence was cute, but kind of “meh”
- Phasma’s helmet should have come all the way off, I think
- Luke spent too much of the movie being a grump
Mark Hamill was right. I disagree with Luke’s handling. I feel kind of bad for him. He wasn’t handled terribly, but it didn’t live up to what I’d hoped for.
But did Luke know, before starting the training school, that Snoke had powers?
Snoke had the Move Stuff With His Mind trick, and the Lightning trick; but he also apparently had the Sense A Guy’s Thoughts trick, which (a) sure, led to the slip that got him killed, but also (b) could go a loooong way to explaining how he pulled off his version of Palpatine’s get-ahead-in-politics playbook: not with physical displays, but like an evil Professor X noting how to blackmail this guy, and what he should dangle in front of that guy, and whether he can trust each of 'em, and – when meeting with a guy in private – whether to drop the act and go full whammy.
Maybe he never publicly used his powers until after Luke went into hiding?
I mostly agree with this. I mean, it’s fun to wonder and speculate and discuss, but I didn’t want to get hung up on some pet theory, or have my enjoyment be spoiled by some canny guess (heavily informed by leaks), I just want the adventure and twists and turns to unfold.
For the first time in ages I really tried to avoid any plot spoilers that were even being idly discussed; the most I was willing to do was look at the trailers and some of the images (plus I’m okay with casting reveals). I also didn’t care who Rey’s parents were, I didn’t see any need to tie her into the narrow family lines that everybody else was all excitable about. And though it’s possible Kylo lied or isn’t aware of their significance, I think most likely it was a deliberate inclusion in the story to directly address fan speculation. Rey wanted them to be as special as the fans did. And the fact that they weren’t is more interesting to me than if they had been Kenobis or Organas or whatever.
While I had a soft spot for Rey being a Kenobi, I do think it’s a good move making her parents nobodies. I just hope they do keep up the Vader-Kylo parallels/story since one thing that helped episodes 1 through 6 was how they all made up the story of Darth Vader, in a way. 7-9 being his long shadow would be nice.
I feel the opposite, fleshing out his backstory would’ve made it even more of a great moment when he died unexpectedly. Almost kind of like Game of Thrones with
Ned Stark… the focus is on him, making him the main protagonist, only for him to die 3/4ths of the way through the first book/season
In the big scheme of things it didn’t matter but I would’ve just loved a few more lines here and there about Snoke, especially from Luke, maybe just comparing him to Palpatine or alluding to how Snoke turned Kylo and why Luke failed to stop it (I know there’s some of the latter, but it needed more). I know the movie was already 2.5 hours long but I gladly would’ve given up pretty much every Finn/Rose/Poe scene for more time with Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke.
Thinking about it more, I wonder if that overstuffed nature is really the main problem with the movie. ESB starts with our characters together and then splits between only two main plot threads (Luke/Yoda on Dagobah and the Falcon/asteroid field/Cloud City). ROTJ starts with everyone together, then splits into effectively three threads (Luke/Vader/Emperor, the ground team, and the space battle). This movie starts out with two (Luke/Rey and the space chase), then starts to really fracture as Finn/Rose split off, Poe remains aboard, Rey splits from Luke and meets up with Kylo…
Force repair, duh.
He did get Ren to take off that stupid mask, and I think we all owe him a debt for that.
I can’t help but think kylo repeatedly telling Rey to stop holding onto the past is a subtle suggestion to fans as well. This ain’t Lucas’ story no more. We don’t need no stinkin kenobis or skywalkers anymore. Anakin’s legendary light saber? Pfft-- toss it, split it in two, who gives a shit? It’s in the past; he’s dead, so are the sith and Jedi. New day, new stories. So stop looking to the past for clues and characters to help you guess what’s coming next.
Saw it, loved it. I wasn’t as thrilled with the red salt imagery that everyone seems to love; it screamed “I’m being cinematic” to me. Loved the humor, JJ Adams style. I can’t stand when they take themselves too seriously. The radio communication scene with Poe and Hux was hysterical.
Absolutely. I felt that that scene was Disney screaming at the world.
Just got back. Loved it. Had some problems with it, but still solidly in the “Damned good” category. Loved that they took Snoke out like that. His whole character was a fantastic head-fake. I wonder if they had that planned from the first movie? Loved the chemistry between Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley, and watching them fight Snoke’s guards. Loved Luke, even if Mark Hamill disagrees with me. I liked the casino as a classy hive of scum and villainy. I hope Benicio del Toro comes back for the third one. Not sure if I want a redemption for him, or a blaster in the face. I liked how Poe’s plan was a complete failure. Heroes don’t always make the right call, and hopefully this is something that will be used to grow his character in the third film. Loved the bit at the end with the kids telling the Legend of Luke Skywalker, and the force-sensitive kid. Loved the salt flats and the crystal foxes. Loved Finn’s “Rebel scum.” Loved Luke’s trick on Kylo, and his death. I loved that I got spoiled for Luke’s death on the boards a couple days ago, and it still surprised me how it played out.
Didn’t like: Poe is too good a pilot. His dogfights are like watching someone play a flight sim on “easy.” Hyperspace is too fast. In fairness, the original trilogy never makes it clear how long it takes to get from planet to planet, but I’d like it better if it was a couple days, not a couple hours, to get from star to star. Space is big. Kind of the same problem with the remnants of the fleet trying to get to the hidden base: they didn’t appear to be aiming for it when they made their last jump, so it should be effectively impossible for them to reach it at sublight speeds. Space is really big. In fairness, though, the first two were problems in TFA, and the last one was a problem in ESB. The hyperspace battering ram was visually amazing, but raises the question of why they don’t do that tactic all the time. Also, in Rogue One, when the Rebel fleet is trying to escape Scarif, one of the transports jumps to light space just as a Star Destroyer drops out of light speed, and the transport barely scratches the the SD. Not sure how to fanwank those two scenes into reconciliation.
Oh, also, Force Ghosts can summon lightning bolts and hit people with sticks, now. Kinda wonder why all those dead Jedi are just hanging out in a glowy blue afterlife, when they could still be really, really effective in the mortal realm.
When it comes to “light speed”, I’ve basically resigned myself to the notion that that phrase means something completely different in the Star Wars universe than it does in real life. According to ANH, the Millennium Falcon has a top speed of 1.5 lightspeed, which is far too slow to get anywhere without spending most of your life in transit, whereas it seems to take no more than a few days tops to get anywhere in the galaxy.
It was fun and passable as a Star Wars film. I think my main problem is that the stakes of the universe in the Star Wars franchise are getting stale. The rebellion can come back multiple times to destroy the weapon du jour and defeat the enemy du jour but somehow the Empire has unlimited resources to just rebuild and find another bad guy to lead the charge.
So now with Luke and Han gone and I assume Leia soon to follow and the Force up for grabs by anyone there’s just not a lot to care about. Not sure what the benefits of a Empire run galaxy vs. an Empire free one are anyways.
My quick take is I absolutely loved it. It was surprising, rish in story, looked amazing and was not a remake like the Force Awakens.
Well, I was disappointed. Oh well. At least some others were as well. My expectations were not met. Was hoping for more grey Jedi and middle ground rather than black and white again at the end. Also I don’t think all much really happened and time was wasted on characters who didn’t matter (Snoke, Phasma - why even have them?). I was bored midway through as well with the ‘chase’ (and the ‘how much fuel?’ check ins). Hoped for a lot more.
And that’s where I hoped Rey would join with Kylo Ren - as a Empire isn’t working, the Republic didn’t work, let’s try something different that will. That would have been quite exciting. All that build up to maybe we can meet in the middle between light and dark side and Empire and Rebellion, and we are back to light vs. dark and Empire vs. Rebellion at the end - with a meaningful Force look between Rey and Kylo Ren.
Just saw it. My reactions before reading this thread:
Loved it! Really liked the twists. I saw the Kylo-kills-Snoke coming since Snoke’s confidence was too absurd not to be punctured, but I didn’t see Luke-as-projection coming at all, and it was great. I also liked the continuing complexity of Kylo/Ben – doesn’t shoot Leia; doesn’t kill Rey; kills Snoke; but still wants to rule the galaxy as a ‘bad guy’. Fitting sendoff for Luke, though I assume we’ll see him as a force ghost. I was most surprised that Leia survived (her saving herself in space was pretty cool, though) – I figured they’d somehow write in her death. But I guess that will wait until next movie.
Remaining questions – was Kylo telling the truth about Rey’s parents? I assume yes. It fits the story, I think, where it is now. What’s left for Kylo? Without an Emperor-like figure, a redemption seems trickier to write. Or maybe just much less obvious. Or maybe he won’t redeem himself at all.