Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!)

The kids and I saw it on Saturday and I actually liked it more than I thought I would. I’ve read the reviews and they were generally negative and I am not much of a fan of JJ Abrams. Critically, I agree with everyone on the thread who said it was too much adventure task chasing and too big of a battle at the end that was a little too hard to follow because of the camera work and editing. I did like General Hux’s reasoning for being the spy and it was a great line when he said “I don’t care who wins, I just want Kylo Ren to lose.” Unfortunate that it didn’t get much more room to breathe and the law of conservatism in movies pointed to him being the spy once the rebel crew was on board the Star Destroyer. It was nice that we got a cameo by Wedge in the final battle but I thought it was Anthony Daniels at first. Ooops.

Also, I figured Leia was going to die and that scene didn’t affect me but once Chewie got back to the base and started bawling, I started crying too.

Hux annoyed me. Mainly because I spent the previous two movies watching Hux and Ren slap fight like two sibling kids in the backseat on a roadtrip and I thought “finally, some payoff”. But, like everything else, it was resolved in a few minutes. Pew-pew, plot line over. I sat through two movies worth of nonsense for that?

Yeah, he seemed awfully young to be a military leader, though there’s a quote out there somewhere that they wanted to fill that role by a young man. The original Empire was run by old men but this is a new era of evil with younger people or something along those lines.

Which kind of bothers me a bit. The Empire was almost all old white men (But they were British, so they were proper) and the Rebel alliance was the group that was more diverse. In this trilogy, the New Order is now more diverse with black officers in command and even a black woman in that command conference in this movie. It diminishes them a bit as an evil entity, I think. The good guys look better because they are diverse and speak to many different races and cultures, but the evil group is kind of diverse too.

How were they diverse? They were all humans!

Saw it last week with two of my teenage sons. We were all underwhelmed to varying degrees. I liked all the callbacks to earlier SW movies, enjoyed the interplay between Poe and Finn, and was impressed by the sfx and alien worlds (especially the mountainous seas on the Endor moon), but thought it was very implausible (even for SW!) at times.

Some interesting behind-the-scenes stuff, I thought, from Wiki and IMDB:

[spoiler]From Wiki:

Denis Lawson and Warwick Davis briefly reprise their roles as Wedge Antilles, a veteran of the Rebel Alliance; and Wicket W. Warrick, the leader of the Ewoks, respectively.

Composer John Williams cameos as Oma Tres, a Kijimi bartender, and Lin-Manuel Miranda cameos as a Resistance trooper.

Director J. J. Abrams also provides the voice for D-O [the little one-wheel droid].

Ed Sheeran, Dhani Harrison, Nigel Godrich, J.D Dillard, and Dave Hearn cameo as stormtroopers.

After Boyega [Finn] accidentally left a copy of the script in his hotel room, it was listed on eBay for around £65. A Disney employee identified the script as authentic and purchased it from the seller for an undisclosed sum.

A shot near the end of the film, featuring two female Resistance members kissing, was cut in Dubai and Singapore.

From IMDB.com:

During the massive crowd celebration scene, C-3PO says that this event happens once every 42 years. This was the time between the first Star Wars movie to be released in 1977 and this film.

Footage of Carrie Fisher from the prior two films was incorporated through the process of rotoscoping, or digitally removing the background of footage and superimposing it elsewhere. Visual effects were also used to change her wardrobe and add gray to her hair so the footage from the films would match.

Producers had a bigger role planned for Leia prior to Carrie Fisher’s death. Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy remarked, “(Carrie) grabbed me and said, ‘I’d better be at the forefront of IX!’ Because Harrison was front and center on VII, and Mark is front and center on VIII. She thought IX would be her movie. And it would have been.” After her death, family members Todd Fisher and Billie Lourd granted Disney and Lucasfilm permission to use Carrie’s likeness in the form of unused footage…

With a gap of thirty-six years, the return of the characters Lando Calrissian and Wedge Antilles marks the longest time for any original actors to reprise his role.

Following a large Twitter campaign, this film was privately screened to a terminally ill man from the Rowan Hospice in Waterlooville, Hampshire, [England] on November 29, 2019. At his own request, the patient’s name was not made public.

The design of Kylo Ren’s (Adam Driver) repaired mask is possibly based on kintsugi, a centuries-old Japanese art to repair broken pottery by joining them together with a golden lacquer, giving the fractures a unique golden pattern. In Japanese culture, the kintsugi technique also stands for highlighting imperfections and giving new life to a broken object, which may be symbolic for the character: By repairing his mask, he attempts to revive his Kylo Ren persona, despite the failures he had endured in his past.

When Rey finds the second Sith Wayfinder in the secret room at the Emperor’s throne room of Second Death Star, she briefly fights against her Sith version. It mirrors the battle between Luke Skywalker against his evil version in the cavern of Dagobah seen in Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980).

Anthony Daniels (C-3PO) is the only actor who appeared in all 9 official Star Wars saga live action films (as well as the various spin-offs). His involvement goes back to the very first film in 1977, and it is widely believed (but unconfirmed as of November 2019) this may be both his and his character’s farewell appearance in the series.

C-3PO’s last line of dialogue, “Did you hear that?” was also his first line in Star Wars (1977), making a perfect bookend to the character.

Ian McDiarmid had reservations about coming back to the Star Wars universe, especially since he (and the rest of the world) thought the Evil Emperor was dead at the end of Jedi: "According to Palpatine actor Ian McDiarmid, however, it was never Lucas’ intention to resurrect the villainous character. “I thought I was dead!” McDiarmid told Digital Spy in a recent video interview. “I thought he was dead. Because when we did ‘Return of the Jedi,’ and I was thrown down that chute to Galactic Hell, he was dead. And I said, ‘Oh, does he come back?’ And [George] said, ‘No, he’s dead.’ So I just accepted that. But then, of course, I didn’t know I was going to be doing the prequels, so in a sense he wasn’t dead, because we went back to revisit him when he was a young man. But I was totally surprised by this.”

Among the Jedi voices Rey hears during the “all Jedi” scene are: Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen), Luminara Unduli (Olivia d’Abo), Ahsoka Tano (Ashley Eckstein), Aayla Secura (Jennifer Hale), Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson), younger Obi Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor), older Obi Wan Kenobi (Alec Guinness), Yoda (Frank Oz), Adi Gallia (Angelique Perrin), Kanan Jarrus (Freddie Prinze Jr.), Qui-Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson), and Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill).

When Rey has her first vision of the Jedi on Takodana in Star Wars: The Force Awakens, you can hear Obi-Wan Kenobi’s voice saying “Rey, these are your first steps.” Towards the end of this movie, you can hear his voice saying “Rey, these are your final steps.”

The ship “Ghost” (Star Wars Rebels), can be seen multiple times in the final battle. This is not the first appearance of the ship outside the series. The ship can also be spotted in Rogue One: a Star Wars Story.

Firefly Easter egg: in the scene where ships from across the Galaxy come to help the Rebellion, Serenity is very visible, center of the screen, obstructed slightly by the ship the camera is following.

Luke Skywalker’s final triumphant feat at the conclusion of the Skywalker Saga is to lift his X-Wing from its sunken state, a feat he could not accomplish in Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980). This moment serves to prove how strong he has become as a Jedi Master.

The saga ends on planet Tatooine, where it started on Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977). [/spoiler]

Haven’t seen Ep. 9 yet, but Ep. 7 definitely had that feel to it.

There was an interview with Abrams, prior to the release of the film, where has asked the interviewer who her favorite character was, and she said, “Ahsoka Tano.” Abrams said something like, “If you pay very close attention, you’ll be pleasantly surprised by the new film,” hinting that she might make a cameo in a live action film, somehow. And she does - as one of the disembodied voices talking to Rey at the very end. So, he was basically saying, “You like Ahsoka Tano? Good news! I killed her off screen! Aren’t you excited?” Which… no. No, I’m pretty sure she’s not excited by that. I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that she was maybe a little pissed at that.

I’m probably reading too much into that exchange, but it really feels emblematic of Abrams’ entire approach to this franchise - “I put that thing you liked in this movie, so now you should liked my movie too, right?” but without any real understanding of *why *someone liked that thing.

Question: Who made that knife and how did they know where to stand to make it point to the Emperor’s throne room on the wrecked Death Star?

A wizard did it.

A *space *wizard.

Or more serious answer - someone using the Force, a power that canonically let’s one see the future.

Also, and I’m aware that this is super nitpicky, but when they take the Falcon to the planet with the Death Star wreck, they crash land because the landing gear is malfunctioning. And after they land, we see the Falcon has dug a long furrow through the earth before it came to rest.

Except, the Millenium Falcon doesn’t land like that. Nothing in the SW universe lands like that. Everything’s got VTOL. Ships land by hovering over where they want to land, then lowering straight down. The Falcon’s landing gear isn’t even wheeled. I’m aware this is verging into “What was the safe combination in that one episode of Star Trek,” territory, but that still bugs me from a “consistent world-building” perspective, particularly because there’s no particular payoff for the Falcon crashing at that point. The Falcon crashes, they run around looking for the next stage MacGuffin, and when they’re done, the Falcon is already fixed and ready to fly. The Falcon crashing doesn’t present any sort of actual obstacle to our heroes, it’s just a more visually exciting way to get them down to the planet surface. It doesn’t mean anything.

(While I’m at it, when did the Falcon get it’s circular radar dish back? In TFA and TLJ, it had a rectangular one, replacing the one that got knocked off in Return of the Jedi.)

The problem with the knife isn’t, “How did they guy who made it know where to stand.” The guy who made the knife is the guy who decided where you had to stand to use it to find the throne room. The problems with the knife are:

  1. How does Rey know where to stand so it lines up? But “Because the Force” is an acceptable answer here, based on what we know the Force can do. (I don’t think that’s the intended answer - I think this is just a pretty common trope in sloppy adventure films - but it works with what’s been established in this universe.

  2. Who was the knife intended for? This is an inherent problem in a lot of these, “Unravel clues to find the lost treasure,” type plots. If you don’t want anyone to find your treasure, why would you leave all these clues and puzzles pointing to it? Palpatine has this super secret military base building huge numbers of ships that he doesn’t want anyone to find accidentally - why would he leave clues to this thing lying around? When he’s ready to unleash his new fleet, why not just… unleash it? Why wait until someone follows his breadcrumbs to him? Why risk the wrong person finding those breadcrumbs when you’re not ready, and screwing up your plan?

  3. That plan relies a whole lot on a pile of wreckage sitting in a storm-wracked ocean for decades holding exactly the same silhouette for that entire time.

This one.

:smack:

No, it requires that to be the particular silhouette for the particular time and view angle Rey ends up standing there. What it was in the decades before is irrelevant.

Which space wizard, and why? What’s their motivation?

I’ve spent my entire life believing that fantasy is a legitimate form of literature that should be held to the same standards as any other. You can’t just ignore plot and character because your story has a few more made-up things that stories told in other genres of fiction. Fantasy is an opportunity to tell a more imaginative story, not an excuse to ignore the fundamentals.

The Dark Side Force use who made the knife that leads to the secret Sith homeworld could see the future clearly enough to craft a knife that perfectly matches the future silhouette of a crashed space station, but not clearly enough to see that the person using the knife is going to be a Light Side Force user bent on sabotaging all of Palpatine’s plans and destroying his secret fleet of plant-killing Star Destroyers?

Thank you! I hate the “space wizard with laser swords” retort. Yes, the Jedi are basically space wizards with laser swords. Yes, there is a strong element of “the force is whatever we need it to be to make the movie happen,” but that does not mean that the logic of the universe itself should be excused from being internally consistent. If hyperdriving spaceships can cut through much larger and more expensive ships and do so much damage it’s overkill, then 1) people in this universe ought to have figured it out by now, if not from scientists and engineers with a detailed understanding of the physics of their technology than at least by accident, and 2) someone should have weaponized this by now. Don’t tell me “space wizards with laser swords,” that’s not an explanation, it’s a crutch. Even the post-hoc rationalizations we get from fans like “Well, you see, there’s gravity wells and it was one in a million, and according to the novelization the cruiser had a super-hard hull,” and on and on and on with the excuses are better than that.

Space wizards with laser swords explains using the force to lift an X-wing out of the water. It does not explain that same force user, in a later scene in the same film or a sequel (hypothetically, just as an example) losing a battle for want of an X-wing, when we have already established that (1) he has an X-wing submerged in the water, and (2) he can lift said X-wing out of the water and it’ll work.

Space wizards get you lifting an X-wing out of the water and, cringe-worthy though it may be, the virgin birth of Anakin Skywalker. They don’t get you a plausible reason for a dagger to the Death Star wreckage or justify someone using a hyperdrive kamikaze move—with no prior history of hyperdrive cruise missiles—for the first time ever in TLJ. And you know what? I don’t care if someone did a hyperdrive kamikaze move at some earlier point in the “canon” beyond the films: that still doesn’t justify the lack of widespread weaponizatiom of hyperdrive kinetic energy weapons, and it still doesn’t make the logic of the films themselves self-contained and internally consistent when such things happen.

There’s a wonderful term from LARPing (originally a CS term, but used differently) - “that’s below the abstraction layer”. I thoroughly embrace it and it’s improved my enjoyment of all SF media no end.

And it’s not unique to SF, it handily deals with useless questions like “How do sitcom characters afford those huge houses?” and “why no toilets on the Enterprise?” and “how do TV detectives survive so many knockouts without permanent brain damage?”

“Who made the space dagger” is in no way, shape or form a “fundamental”. Mysteries we never know the answer are more realistic than everything wrapped up in a bow. And more pleasing for it - at least, IMO they are.

Who says it was made by a Dark Sider?

You’re right. Obviously it was a light-sider who inscribed it with sith runes because they didn’t want to make it too easy.