Star Wars VII, VIII, IX possibly to be retconned away

Que? It was a legitimate magazine.

Yes, they added the words “Episode IV: A New Hope” to the opening crawl in 1980 or 1981 (not sure which, but it was then.) But the movie was still being sold and titled as “Star Wars.” Again, there are formal conventions as to how movies are titled. The crawl isn’t the film’s title.

The (1997, I believe) re-release was the first movie formally titled “Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.”

I mean, Lucas just lies non stop about this stuff, I don’t know why anyone would buy what he says; he still maintains with a straight face that Han ALWAYS shot Greedo first and the original version was just “confusing.” It’s his movie, he can change it all he wants. (Well, I guess it’s Disney’s movie now.)

Just FYI, but that was a quote from one of the movies.

Do you have a cite for that? Every source I’ve looked at says it was retitled in 1981.

Girls, girls, you’re both pretty!

For fuck’s sake people. Referring to the 1977 movie as Star Wars is reasonable. Referring to it as A New Hope or Episode 4 is also reasonable. The only things that’s are unreasonable are:
(a) getting insanely huffy or pretentious or self-satisfied or superior about which terminology you use
or
(b) not acknowledging that there are contexts or justifications for using the other terminology

You’re new here, right?

Continuing a sequels-related discussion here instead of hijacking the “suspension of disbelief” thread:

Rey doesn’t appear to be an indentured servant. When we first see her as an adult, she’s living on her own, and bartering with the scrap guy. We learn in the third movie that she was left there by parents who cared for her, but couldn’t keep her because of the danger they were in, so its unlikely they sold her. More likely, they paid him, probably with the understanding that they’d be back to get her when it was safe. After a few years, when its clear they aren’t coming back, it’s “Time to start earning your keep.” Instead of, “close supervision,” I imagine it more like, “Pilot this ship over to Outpost 17 and drop it off with the Rodian. Here’s ten credits for the bantha ride back. See you in three days.” And Rey’s, like, twelve years old.

Well, this guy apparently got some melee training, so it’s something Stormtroopers learn. Finn’s a Stormtrooper. Melee combat remains surprisingly viable despite the high tech settings. Doesn’t seem a stretch to assume the guy who’s been a soldier literally since childhood might have had some training with a sword at some point.

It seemed pretty clear to me (as much as anything was clear and consistent in that mess of a “trilogy”) that Finn had been trained since childhood as a combat soldier, just like all the other stormtrooper “recruits”, but he wound up assigned to Sanitation, and didn’t have any real-world combat experience until the mission at the beginning of the The Force Awakens. It’s at that point, in his first field duty, as he is ordered to slaughter civilians and his best friend dies and no one cares, that he fully groks just what the First Order really is.

But, just like the U.S. Marines like to say, “every Marine a rifleman”, in the First Order, “every stormtrooper a fighter”. Even the guys that wind up assigned to Sanitation are expected to pick up a blaster or a vibroblade and go kill on a moment’s notice.

All of which is to say, I agree it’s entirely consistent with the way that Finn is depicted in the movies that he would have had training and have had to meet minimum competency standards on blasters and melee weapons. If he were an incompetent combatant, he wouldn’t have been assigned to garbage disposal duties - he would have been put in the garbage disposal.

It’s funny. In the Original Movie, we see Luke, a farmboy, zipping around in a landspeeder. That’s it. That’s the entirety of his on-screen flight experience. Nothing else is established in dialogue to indicate he’s ever actually flown anything (I know, “used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16”, but what’s a T-16?). He’s clearly completely unfamiliar with the controls of the Millennium Falcon’s guns when he jumps into the gun turret, yet seconds later he’s blowing TIE fighters out of space. Later, still with no scenes establishing he has any training or experience flying a ship, he’s assigned to pilot the Galaxy’s most advanced space superiority fighter, in the vanguard of the attack on the Death Star, a mission experienced fighter pilots dismiss as a suicide mission, and he’s immediately winning dogfights, and winds up being one of only three fighters to survive the attack.

And yet no one complains about Luke being a Mary Sue for his “unrealistic” piloting skills.

There is one thing. When they’re bargaining with Han in the cantina:

Luke: We could buy our own ship for that much!
Han: Whose going to fly it? You?
Luke: You bet I could! I’m not such a bad pilot myself!

But your overall point stands.

Good catch. Of course, that was just Luke making an unsubstantiated claim to someone who he thought was a crook trying to gouge them.

What we actually see on screen is that Han has to explain to him the basics of the gun turret. And Han also has to explain to Luke not even the basics, but the pre-basics, of hyperspace navigation - he has to explain to Luke why you would even need to make calculations before a hyperspace jump. It’s abundantly clear that whatever experience farmboy Luke has as a pilot, its not with a starship. And yet, he immediately becomes a gunnery ace and then a fighter ace.

And that didn’t interfere with my suspension of disbelief, because he’s The Hero in a Pulp Mythic Adventure, and in a world that has an explicit in-universe rationale for cinematic luck, skill, and talent - he’s a natural Force savant. So is Rey. That’s not her being a “Mary Sue”, that’s her recapitulating Luke’s journey, but in a sequel, so everything has to be amped up.

Cite to the press release?

ETA: Serious questions:

  1. Do films have ‘official’ names?
  2. Assuming the answer to (1) is in the affirmative, how does one distinguish a film’s official name from any unofficial names it might have collected along the way?

It’s still retconning, no matter how you want to defend it.

Think of what Mark Hamill says here. (It’s about how his hair looked after he was in the trash compactor, but the principal still stands)
Skip to 58 seconds, if you don’t feel like sitting through the whole thing.

BTW, tell me his impression of Harrison Ford isn’t dead on.

“Hey, kid… it ain’t that kinda movie.”

There appear to be some here who are perfectly happy to see entire trilogies wiped from history, but a simple title change is a corruption of all things pure and right.

I repeat my previous:

Are you new here?

It’s that ship in the background of Luke working with the new droids.

The thing Lucas may never have thought of is that the “I used to bullseye womprats” is actually an amazing thing that Luke doesn’t even realize, not just the boasting of a cocky kid who is out of his league in an X wing. He was using the force even then but didn’t know it. Just like his father at 8 years old.

It’s why he was so good in his first time in the MF gun turret.

That, and that he’s The Hero in a Pulp Mythic Adventure, Marty Stuwalker. :slight_smile: