Star Wars was cribbed from The Wizard of Oz?

Cafe Society
41

Oh, hai - didn’t know this was going on, - I’ll just quote myself from here for some clarification.

To make it easier to see which bits of Star Wars are modelled on Star Wars, consider that Luke and Leia take the “Dorothy” role.

At first, Tattooine is Kansas, and Luke is Dorothy - a wistful orphan who spends his days on the arid, colourless farm of his stolid, plain folk aunt and uncle dreaming of far-off adventure. At the beginning of the action, he is led off the homestead to follow a small runaway creature. Not far from the homestead, he meets a mystic old man, and after a brief exposition, he resolves to return home to his Aunt and Uncle, who need him - however, he immediately finds that he is prevented from returning to the comfort of home by a ruinous catastrophe, and is swept up into the far-off adventure that he had dreamed of.

Later, Leia stands in for Dorothy, as the helpless heroine that needs to be rescued from the fortress of black-robed villain holding her in a cell awaiting execution. As noted upthread, the rescue is effected by our heroes wearing comically ill-fitting uniforms acquired from the guards in an off-screen scuffle.

If you cry foul that we have two distinct Star Wars characters standing in for Dorothy, consider that early drafts had Anakin Starkiller needing rescue from the Death Star - the princess came in a later revision.

To be clear, Lucas “cribbing from” the Wizard of Oz doesn’t mean there’s a 1:1 isomorphic relationship between the two films, just that The Wizard of Oz is one of several elements of the pastiche. There are also references that are just references for the sake of references, such as C3P0 quoting the Wicked Witch of the West’s death throes (“I’m melting, this is your fault!”) after the dogfight with the TIE fighters, or Darth Vader’s puzzled prodding of Obi-Wan’s empty Jedi robe, which references the same scene.

42

It’s not much of a quote.

43

From my quick perusal, those are some seriously weak parallels in the stories. Like, really weak.

44

If I was going to cry foul on that, I would argue further that the final draft is what counts because that’s what Star Wars actually is*, not early drafts.

*ignoring Greedo shoots first, etc.

45

S’true. it’s paraphrase.: “Look what you’ve done! I’m melting!” / “I’m melting, this is your fault!” It stands out, though, because in C-3PO’s context it doesn’t make a lot of literal sense. He is clearly in no danger of melting, and it’s hardly Artoo’s fault. (It is perfectly characteristic of the sort of comic dialogue you find between parallel peasant characters in The Hidden Fortress, of course.)

I don’t think that makes a lot of sense, if we’re talking about inspirations.

46

[Quote=Larr mudd]
I don’t think that makes a lot of sense, if we’re talking about inspirations.
[/QUOTE]

If you leave your inspiration on the editing room floor, I think it makes pretty obvious they didn’t inspired the end product. Even if you don’t agree that should make sense to you.

47

Thank you for replying. That is the explanation I was looking for.

I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss that Lucas was drawing on TWOO just because he changed something. I don’t think the argument was ever that Star Wars is exactly the same plot.

48

It’s two quotes that both use the words “I’m melting.” The more you look at the resemblance, the less resemblance there is. “Look what you’ve done” and “This is your fault” don’t even mean the same thing; if the Witch had said “this is your fault,” we’d remember it as a really moronic line. If it’s an homage, it’s weak and kind of bizarre. And it’s R2D2’s fault because he thinks everything about their involvement in the story is R2D2’s fault.

49

They have the barest of similarities though. Did you read those links above? One of them tries to show a parallel between brave smuggler Chewbacca and the Cowardly Lion; the wise old teacher Obi wan with end of the quest fraudulent Wizard. Seriously, wtf?

50

Wouldn’t Obi Wan and Glinda be a better comparison? That’s not exactly a one-to-one correspondence either, of course.

51

Yes, a lot of those were very bad stretches. I was pretty dismissive of the idea until Larry Mudd’s posts. He makes a reasonable case for elements of inspiration/homage.

Though the “I’m melting” one seems thin.

52

For anyone who has seen The Guns of Navarone, the “take out guards and wear their uniforms” happens at least three times in the film, and there are significant parallels (including the tense sequence where the magazine elevator going up and down but not quite actuating the boobytrap while the guns fire on the British task group parallel to Grand Moff Tarkin being told about the vulnerability in the thermal port while nearing Yavin) between those two films as well.

“Let’s blow this thing and go home” is direct from The Dam Busters and flying out of the sun to take out an opponent is from Twelve O’Clock High.

Parallels between The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars are pretty weak and coincidential except that both generally have an adventure treasure hunt plot and flying monkeys/stormtroopers led by a deformed evil leader with magical powers opposed by a pathological liar (Professor Marvel and Obi Wan Kenobi, respectively.)

Stranger

53

This thread is the first time I’ve ever heard about an Oz connection, and I was obsessed about Star Wars since I first saw it as a sixteen year-old on its release.

I think the theory is the bunk.

54

They share a common ancestry, there will be parallels. I spelled a few out myself in this thread. I could do the same thing connecting Almost Famous to Star Wars if I wanted. Any evidence that Oz inspired Lucas specifically is spurrious at best.

55

No mention yet of the borrowings from Jack Kirby’s Fourth World comics. You’ve got a good guy who turns out to be the son of the main villain; that villain’s name happens to be pronounced Dark Side; you’ve got your good guys drawing strength from [del]The Force[/del] “The Source”; you’ve got a character whose name is suspiciously similar to Luke Skywalker (“Mark Moonrider”)…

56

But was Louie Wu the Scarecrow (wirehead business) or Toto? I am inclined to think the latter, the Scarecrow was the Seeker dude, who was not all that bright.

And, of course, the irony you encounter when you read Engineers is thatDorothy is the Man Behind the Curtain

57

garygnu writes:

> I could do the same thing connecting Almost Famous to Star Wars if I wanted.

Go ahead. Do it. Let’s see what the comparisons are in that case.

58

I figured somebody would call me on this about ten seconds after I posted it. Spoilered for those who haven’t seen Almost Famous:

Luke Skywalker = William Miller
Obviously William in Almost Famous is the hero character. Like Luke he is young and naive, but is talented and wants to break from his existing home life. William’s father isn’t around, thus making him a ‘partial’ orphan in this context. He enters another world, full of strange characters and otherworldly conflict. He eventually achieves his goal, getting published in Rolling Stone magazine, but not before seemingly being defeated, but saved at the last minute by his own Han Solo friend.

Speaking of friends:
Obi-wan Kenobi = Lester Bangs (Phillip Seymour Hoffman)
While the personalities are vastly different, they’re both the mentor.
Leia = Penny Lane (Kate Hudson)
The order is reversed, Leia is rescued then becomes a guide; Penny is William’s initial guide to the rock world, and needs William to rescue her later when she OD’s on drugs. Leia also shares some aspects with William’s older sister played by Zooey Deschanel.
Han = Russell (Billy Crudup)
Charismatic yet aloof, The band Stillwater’s lead guitarist Russell initially treats William like Han does Luke, like a green outsider. After sharing some adventures together, though, they become friends. Like Han, Russell abandons the hero at the movie’s climax, but “saves” William by belatedly confirming the truth about the article William wrote.
Chewbacca = Jeff (Jason Lee)
Stillwater’s lead singer bickers with Billy, but they stick with each other. OK, this is where the comparisons start getting thin.
Darth Vader = Ben Fong-Torres (Terry Chen)
The real villains in Almost Famous are circumstance, interpersonal conflict, and drugs. But William does have the challenge of writing a story for a stern and skeptical Ben Fong-Torres of Rolling Stone magazine. He rejects two versions of William’s story before Russell intervenes. Fong-Torres and Lester Bangs even have an old feud themselves, like Vader and Obi-wan.

Is that good enough? The plot of Almost Famous is deliberately structured as a classic hero’s journey, with a call to adventure, meeting the mentor, crossing the threshold, resurrection, return with the elixir, and the rest. It will share parallels with any other monomyth movie.

59

Oh, one more thing. The groupies in Almost Famous wear white, and threaten to keep our hero from his goal, although in a different way than the white-clad Stormtroopers of Star Wars.

60

I think episode borrows even more directly from The Hidden Fortress. The princess, in disguise, being moved around by a lone warrior.

Pretty much the plot of hidden fortress except Qui Jon looses his fight.
The spear duel in The Hidden Fortress is the most bad ass thing in movies ever.