Start from scratch on UHC

[yorick73]

@elucidator

Yes, of course! Such paragons of efficiency as Enron, Halliburton, and AIG make your point irrefutable.

Oh yeah…that reminds me of other reasons why the private sector is more efficient:
3. Competition
4. You’ll go out of business(barring a gubment bailout) if you fuck up and lose all your money.

[elucidator]

They didn’t “fuck up and lose their money”. They fucked over and lost ours.

[yorick73]

@elucidator

They didn’t “fuck up and lose their money”. They fucked over and lost ours.

By “ours” you mean shareholders? Unless you are investing in government bonds there are risks associated with investing (yes even 401(k) and mutual funds). One of the risks, unfortunately, is that the company will screw over its investors and take their wealth on the way down. Doesn’t change the fact the private sector runs more efficiently on the whole.

[elucidator]

Well, they sure as hell did that with crisp efficiency! Plundering 401(k)s and pension plans with a ruthlessness that would make Blackbeard blush! Earning them the thanks of a grateful nation.

[yorick73]

@elucidator

Well, they sure as hell did that with crisp efficiency! Plundering 401(k)s and pension plans with a ruthlessness that would make Blackbeard blush! Earning them the thanks of a grateful nation.

Do you have a point to make? There are bad apples in any bunch. Does this prove that government can run things more efficiently? Hardly. Government has the power to tax and can KEEP taking your money for their failed ideas for generations. Just how far in the hole are these efficient government programs you are thinking of?

[gonzomax]

@yorick73

It is fairly simple…no magic involved. Two reasons why the private sector functions more effectively come to mind immediately:

1. Profit motive
2. The fear of having your ass fired because your work is subpar.

The profit motive ,unchecked, brought the economy to its knees and almost gave us a depression.
They of course were losing billions and did not get fired. They got huge bonuses and salaries. They also got put in power to fix the damage they caused. The big shot financial experts are still enjoying lush lives at tax payer expense.

[yorick73]

@gonzomax

The profit motive ,unchecked, brought the economy to its knees and almost gave us a depression.

This was caused and propagated by government intervention.

@gonzomax

They of course were losing billions and did not get fired. They got huge bonuses and salaries.

Who cares how one company runs things. They should have gone out of business. You have government to thank for saving them.

@gonzomax

They also got put in power to fix the damage they caused. The big shot financial experts are still enjoying lush lives at tax payer expense.

I’m sure you realize that government intervention is to blame for this. They should have gone out of business.

Government creates most of the problems in the private sector due to regulations and, when things go to shit because of their policies, they offer up new “solutions”.

[gonzomax]

@yorick73

This was caused and propagated by government intervention.

Who cares how one company runs things. They should have gone out of business. You have government to thank for saving them.

I’m sure you realize that government intervention is to blame for this. They should have gone out of business.

Government creates most of the problems in the private sector due to regulations and, when things go to shit because of their policies, they offer up new “solutions”.

There was no government regs when it was occurring. But the truth is they are the government. that is why they still run it.

[yorick73]

@gonzomax

There was no government regs when it was occurring. But the truth is they are the government. that is why they still run it.

Huh? Look up CRA. Also, remember the impact of Fannie and Freddie?

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11455973&postcount=161

Here’s a guy who seems to agree with me.

[Dynamo]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

Seem to have 'em beat in the military and space sectors.

Is that why government routinely turns to companies like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Gunman, Boeing, etc. to develop their military/space equipment?

You’ve obviously never heard the term defense contractor, have you?

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Dynamo

Is that why government routinely turns to companies like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Gunman, Boeing, etc. to develop their military/space equipment?

You’ve obviously never heard the term defense contractor, have you?

Oh what. Good help is hard to find. The govment found some and make it happen.

When is the last time any private CEO got their hands dirty? 1935?

[bri1600bv]

@RTFirefly

No, but the Bible doesn’t equate taxation with theft, either.

But just for shits and giggles, suppose Peter had come up to Jesus and said, “a thief stole a bunch of stuff from me, sold it, and spent it on food that he gave to the poor!” What do you think Jesus would have told Peter?

Based on my reading of the Gospels, Jesus would have probably reminded Peter that he should have already sold his possessions and given the money to the poor, and he should rejoice that the thief essentially did that for him.

This isn’t saying that Jesus would have approved of the thief, but in this conversation, the thief isn’t Jesus’ concern, because Jesus isn’t talking to the thief. His concern is whether poor people were helped with Peter’s money (yes), and how Peter should feel about that (good).

Jesus would say stone the thief to death, probably.

Jesus also said the poor would always be with us.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

Well! I proposed this as a sort of unexplored hypothetical option, but now it is looking more and more like the road to bipartisanship… sort of…
cite

Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., also suggested that a fresh start was needed.

“Bringing up of the health care situation in the midst of recession, the unemployment problems … was a mistake,” Lugar said. “For the moment, let’s clear the deck and try it again next year or in subsequent times.”

could work, unless he’s thinking of 2525 as ‘subsequent times’…

An independent senator counted on by Democrats in the health care debate showed signs of wavering Sunday when he urged President Barack Obama to postpone many of his initiatives because of the economic downturn.

“I’m afraid we’ve got to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy’s out of recession,” said Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman. “There’s no reason we have to do it all now, but we do have to get started. And I think the place to start is cost health delivery reform and insurance market reforms.”

IOW, we got 2 sick democrat senators who can’t vote, so… maybe wait until these offices are occupied, at least?