In general, I don’t blame a Christian, or a Jew, or a pagan, or an atheist, or anyone else whose life would be in danger if he expressed his religion in a “Muslim” country for walking out on a “Muslim” prayer. It seems to me exactly the right approach. By not waylaying the follower of Mohammed after the service & beating him to a bloody pulp, we shame the Muslims by our tolerance. I don’t think you understand what their “submission to the will of Allah” actually entails.
Imagine a Christian clergyman giving a prayer in the Japanese Diet. Would you be mortally offended if a few strongly Shinto members walked out?
Why, when “Islam” is at war with us, should we be surprised that those of us who think Mohammed was a liar refuse to sit still for his deceived followers?
I occasionally say “Mohammedan” instead of Islam, because I believe in God, & it sticks in my craw to call that religion (a religion that kills women for flirting; a religion that would call “tolerance” the policy that it is permissible, but not required, to leave people alive unless they pray to idols; a religion with dogmatic devotion to the savage customs of ancient Bedouins) by a name that is supposed to mean “submission [to the will of the true God]”. If this “Muslim” clergyman is not of that stripe, if he’s actually a Sufi or something, then perhaps I’m being unfair. But if you get up and call yourself a loyal follower of woman-haters & genocidists, expect me to dislike you.
Given that of the several dozen “Muslim” countries, there are few (if any) where a non-Muslim’s life would be in danger for expressing their religion, you are beginning from a point of rather vitriolic ignorance.
Another statement that has no basis in fact.
Y’know, we’re supposed to be fighting ignorance here, not promoting it.
foolsguinea? You’re freakin’ me out man. If was to put your post (in the abscence of tomndebb’s wonderful riposte) up on any postboard in the Middle East or the Subcontinent right now… I shudder to think how the general perception of your country’s esteem would plummet.
Everything, absolutely everything your country stands for in principle, was just trashed in one fell swoop by that post of yours. Your post was filled with hate…
In my time here on the Straight Dope Message Board, I think that’s probably the scariest, most reckless thing I’ve ever read… let alone immeasurably unwise…
As I said, you’re freakin me out man… it scares the shit out of me that they’re might be more Americans like you lurking around the traps. If so, you’re all doomed to a life of despair I predict.
It matters not whether you believe you’re right - what counts is the huge fucking bullseye you’re putting on yourself, and your fellow American citizens. Talk about dooming your fellow Americans to a dreadful stereotype.
Thank goodness I know for a fact that this wonderful messageboard reflects that your opinions are the opinions of a lunatic fringe element.
The Christian Bible = The Qu’an = The Tora = The Book of Mormans = The horoscope in the morning paper.
Ain’t diversity wonderful? And stupid. And dangerous. And an affront to all free-thinkers of this earth who seek objective truth.
You’all who haven’t, must really read the better translations of the Koran.
( although you’ll find that in it is written that Christians and Jews aren’t permitted to read the Holy Writings that are found within.)
And rightly so, to the unbeliever, the semantics found within the Koran reveal an religion of dogmatic, unpolitically correct dictates that are warlike and sorely lacking in the tempering effects of “forgiving love” that permeates the inspired teachings of Jesus Christ.
(Sorry, one has to be true to his attempts to understand reality.)
(And sorry, that I found it necessary to write that last sentence.)
Oh, great, there’s more. Foolsguinea, your intolerance and hatred is truly astonishing. This is too over-the-top to even warrant a serious response. Attitudes like yours are what’s wrong with the world right now.
This is the current popular form of insincere apology: one apologizes, not for what one has actually said, but for its effect on certain listeners.
Nowhere in here does McMahan say she was wrong to have said what she said. All she says is that she’s sorry anyone felt offended or slighted by her words.
If there’s a more complete text to her apology in which she apologizes for the content of her remarks, rather than their effect, I’ll retract my claim that this is an example of the non-apology apology. But I’m not holding my breath.
FWIW, I think McMahan was making a statement about the First Amendment just by the act of walking out.
I’m making one key assumption here: that McMahan would be against any efforts to end the official practice of beginning meetings of the legislature with prayer. I think I’m on safe ground there.
Given that assumption, her choice to walk out of an Islamic prayer is, in effect, a statement saying certain religions belong in such a context, and other religions don’t.
I’d have walked out too. It is still legal to express your opinion. The US is at war with Islam, despite what the spin doctors are trying to sell, and no amount of pc rhetoric is going to change that fact in the minds of the Americans who know it.
It certainly is. The message of walking out isn’t merely “I disagree with what you say,” but rather “I can’t condone your saying/doing that here.” And that does seem to be your message.
Now, this is a sweeping assertion:
and I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s wondering if you can back it up in the least.
It’s hard for me to buy into the notion of Dubya as a purveyor of PC rhetoric, but whatever.
Far too many of them, rjung, based on people I’ve heard yammering on the radio or discussing things on the bus. I’ve lost counts of the times that I’ve heard about “those Mooslims,” who’d be happy to “slit my children’s throats just because they could,” or some similar form of twaddle.
The problem is that people like Simbelmyne and foolsguinea are being willfully ignorant, because they simply choose not to learn more (the same could likely be said about Ms. McMahan). Some months ago, I was frustrated enough at the element of willful ignorance that I even started a thread about it. Though it was refreshing to hear that I wasn’t the only one who noticed the problem, it hasn’t alleviated my frustration with it… if anything, the willfully ignorant have only shown themselves to be more stubborn and self-righteous than ever, since in the intervening time the war has begun. They believe this proves all of their beliefs “right.”
what vapid arrogance they display by proclaiming opposing viewpoints to be “willful ignorance.” Somebody’s been watching too many Merchant Ivory films.
Not any opposing viewpoints, Simbelmyne, just viewpoints that substitute poor rhetoric for thought and are patently devoid of any factual information. I can respect an opposing viewpoint if it’s reasonably constructed.
However, stating that “the US is at war with Islam” is pretty poor reasoning, and I’d challenge you to back it up with some facts if you can.
And I haven’t seen a Merchant Ivory movie in years, though I confess to enjoying The Remains of the Day quite a bit… are they even still making moves?
Cut her some slack, man. Her last post here was damn near a month ago.
And no, I don’t have a clue why foolsguinea felt compelled to start things rolling again yesterday. A quick look at his posting history doesn’t indicate that he was away from the board for four weeks, or anything.
I would love to see someone who actually believes this to give some evidence to back up their assertions. And I mean using facts, not rhetoric and childish namecalling.
Must raise ol’ Barbarossa and Saint Louis (VII or IX-I forget which one was the saint) from the ground and defeat ol’ Saladin (Hussein) and Osama bin Laden
And I thought the US was fighting a country in a Muslim country, not the 5 'Stans nor Albania or Bosnia or Azerbaijan or Malaysia or Indonesia or…