There hasn’t been even a moment that I thought the prosecution had made a solid case for anything. The biggest surprise to me so far in this trial is that Rachel admitted that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman using a pejorative ethnic slur. And that wasn’t a great moment for the prosecution. This case appears to be just the way that it is: a prosecution due to public pressure (created by a false narrative regurgitated by the media)
And let us never forget the fact that eyewitnesses are extremely error-prone, limiting their usefulness for either side, although the more agreement there is among them, the more likely it is they are recalling with decent accuracy.
Careful, now… I haven’t watched with the avid attentiveness that I once applied to the OJ trial many moons ago, but I haven’t heard about any evidence being introduced in this trial telling us, and more importantly, the jury, what Zimmerman’s account of the incident actually is. Doesn’t mean they havent’, I’m just saying I haven’t heard anything about it. Have they introduced his many statements, interviews, and re-enactments? Because all by themselves those reveal his dishonesty, so I’m thinking not.
For our purposes, though, which version of the story do you consider Zimmerman’s “definitive” version?
By the way, what was the life threat to Zimmerman again? I’m a little confused, there’s been so much talk about the injuries proving that he had good reason to fear for his life and therefore shoot Martin, but Magiver said in one of the threads that the actual claim is that he feared for his life because Martin was going for the gun, and possibly also that he supposedly threatened to kill GZ.
Is there a consensus about this on Team Zimmerman?
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If such evidence came to light (for instance, an instructor testified that Zimmerman fell in the ring during practice and hurt himself hours before the shooting), would you support 2nd degree murder conviction then? Or would you still be insisting that there is reasonable doubt?
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You have this MMA stuff painted to be hyper injury inducing. Yet Martin exhibited no wounds consistent with taking an MMA style beat down from Zimmerman.
Does anyone think the prosecution is making a strong case?
The whole MMA training aspect is silly, due to the fact 6 months is not going to make you into a superhuman fighter or even a skilled street fighter. Have you ever been to a beginner amateur MMA fight?, it doesn’t look like the UFC. It’s sloppy and having to deal with getting punched in the head adds a whole new dynamic. I bet all of Zimmerman’s training went right out the window and it’s more than possible he was on the losing end of the fight.
Well you’d think the prosecutor’s audio specialist would have been able to isolate Martin screaming “stop hitting yourself”, “stop hitting yourself”.
Yes, for the defense. We’re all waiting for something not yet released to the public that is significant to the case.
Crap, all we’ll ever know about what exactly happened this night is basically nothing. The witnesses and past history of both alive and deceased also tell us nothing about this night.
What I definitely know is if GZ never confronted Martin, we’d have no trial. But now that we do have one, nothing has shown me (so far) that someone was profiling or someone attacked someone else. I think that all eye and ear witnesses are being as honest as they can, but that’s how good eye-witnesses can be.
Bottom line: There’s no good outcome from this trial whatsoever. And the whole bullshit law of “Stand Your Ground” better be out the door, or the courtroom doors will be propped open forever.
NYTimes article has a good map showing where Trayvon died and the 7-11.
looks like a pretty long walk unless he knew how to cut through the grassy areas.
Depends on what you mean by ‘strong’. This trial is going to begin and end with Zimmerman’s testimony - and by testimony, I mean his NEN call, his statements to police after the shooting, his video walk-through, his interview on Fox, etc. He’ll probably need to take the stand as well.
None of the witnesses saw anything conclusive - from the state’s point of view all they need to do is get through this initial phase showing that nobody saw anything that conclusively proved Zimmerman would have been fearful for his life. In that sense, mission accomplished.
The key bits for the State so far - and the only evidence the initial witnesses were called to testify to, are:
- Nobody saw any punches or head-smashing;
- George seemed calm immediately (mere seconds) after the shooting - nat all confused or disorientated;
- Nobody heard any ‘you’re going to die tonight’ etc threats;
- Nobody saw Martin move or speak after the shooting;
- None of the witnesses said they were able to see Zimmerman’s gun or holster even those with flash lights and such;
- Even in an ‘MMA position’, George should have been able to punch back;
Speaking of MMA, guess who was taking very regular MMA classes, intense enough to have him go to the doctor on previous occasions; - No conclusive evidence his nose was actually broken;
- Head wounds bleed a lot more than other parts of the body
- Martin thought the guy following him was ‘creepy’
Not near enough to get a conviction, but they’re laying the groundwork. The State’s main case will focus on George’s statements -after- the shooting.
Exactly, Stoid. We need to be discussing the case according to the rules of the trial. Not factoring in stuff that has not been presented to the jurors.
People keep conflating defense’s arguments with actual evidence. But to the jury’s eye, Zimmerman’s story doesn’t exist. They have no idea about how many punches to the face he supposedly sustained or how his head came to be injured. West and O’Mara’s claims about Martin being armed with a sidewalk is dramatic and all, but its just bluster right now unless they can put up a witness who will testify to that.
Would you be saying this if Trayvon had been the one practicing MMA three times a week, for three hours a day, for at least 6 months?
It would be one thing if MMA was all that Zimmerman had in history. But he’d worked as a bouncer previously. It boggles the mind how hard some of you are making this guy out to be some kind of helpless wimp, to justify in your minds him killing a skinny unarmed teenager.
Even if Zimmerman were a UFC fighter, it obviously didn’t do him much good. He lost this fight. Unless the argument is that he intentionally let himself get beat up, then I don’t really see how it’s that relevant to anything.
By what measure? The kid was killed and Zimmerman walked away with paper cuts. If that’s losing, everyone should be so lucky.
Of course they wouldn’t. These are the same guys that were grasping at the ‘Martin was into street fighting’ nonsense. It’s hilarious watching the furious back-pedalling as they react to the news that one of the guys in the fight actually took MMA classes…and it wasn’t the guy that ended up dead.
I wish it were hilarious to me. It’s sad and scary, and its causing me to question whether I want to have kids.
Some of the legal experts can clarify this.
It’s my understanding a defendant’s statement to the police can’t come into trial unless they testify? Which is why its such a big risk for them to take the stand? If George testifies then his video recreations of the incident can come in as prosecution rebuttal?
I recall with Casey Anthony that her jail house conversations with family were played in court. But her interviews with police weren’t.
I’m still having a hard time imagining him testifying. In the process of West trying to construe every single nit in Rachel J.'s testimony as grounds for impeachment, he basically made it okay for Zimmerman to be regarded as a wholesale liar the instance his prior statements are shown to contradict each other or contradict the state witnesses.
Take Manolo, for instance. In his statement, Zimmerman claimed he asked him to restrain Martin, and not to call the cops because they were on the way. But yesterday, Manolo’s version of events was that Zimmerman was on the phone when he came upon him.
Zimmerman never admitted to being on the phone. Ever. How in the hell will Zimmerman explain this away? And why would he not admit to it, if this detail doesn’t hurt him in some way? The State knows who he called and they know how long the conversation lasted. Putting GZ on the stand guarantees this will come out, and I’m not sure GZ is willing to risk that.
That’s presumably why he carried a gun, so that losing a fight would mean death or disability. That he used the gun to save his life is the point of owning it, and the point of having self defence laws, not some sort of sign that Zimmerman is an evil criminal.
If you think Zimmerman was using his MMA training to restrain and attack Martin, show some evidence of it. We have evidence that Martin was on top, and his arms were moving downwards towards Zimmerman, and both Zimmerman’s head and Martin’s hand have injuries consistent with that.
Where are the injuries to Martin and Zimmerman consistent with him being the attacker?