The other day I was thinking about something I did like 7 years ago that was wrong. I got to thinking, if God was going to punish me for this, would he have done it all ready? How long until you are “in the clear”?
I was raised that you are punished after you die, with eternal torment, if you did not ask for forgiveness. No statute of limitations.
Just to give you a heads up, this thread will almost certainly be moved to the “Great Forums”.
I am not a theologian but my understanding is your punishment (if any) from God is received in the afterlife. Essentially once dead you will be judged and your fate determined at that time. At the moment of judgment your whole life will be open for review. How god weighs out (for example) pushing your little sister when you were 5 versus pushing your wife when you were 50 I couldn’t say bue I would think the latter would be judged more harshly. Nevertheless there is no statute of limitations on this stuff from God that I am aware of.
God may not punish you, but I might.
Moving this from GQ to Great Debates.
samclem
The basis for a Statute of Limitations is that after a certain period of time, it becomes impractical (or diifcult, or impossible) to ensure that due process can be reasonably expected in a judicial proceeding. As time passes, evidence disappears, witnesses die (and hence cannot be confronted), witnesses’ recall of past events and details becomes suspect.
Presumably, a diety of the rank of JHWH would not have these problems, and also would not be constrained by judicial conventions.
I guess what I was getting at is, does God go about tit-for-tat punishment as you go through life, and if so, how soon from your evil deed do you get your just reward?
The idea of karma is much more tit-for-tat. IIRC, karma (good or bad), can either follow you into the afterlife or your next life, or, it can hit you five minutes after the deed.
Is there a way to wipe the slate clean with your karma (the way your sins can be forgiven under the Christian model)?
I think not. One of the criticisms of the Chrisitian belief system is the belief that on can expiate one’s sin by grace or belief. The value of the idea of karma is that actions have consequences, which must be endured, and the the process is not just a punishment, but part of a growth cycle.
God, assuming he exists, has no moral or legal right to punish you at all. If he does it anyway, the answer to your question is “God’s whim”. He may punish you not at all, reward you, or torment you eternally for minor mistakes.
Theologically, the answer would be “depends who you ask”.
The first thing to say about Christianity is that it is not a legal religion, but a relational one. Christianity is not about being a “good person”, but is about having relationship with God and relationship with God’s people. The point of Christianity is not that you have to live up to God’s rules or go to hell. The point is that no-one is capable of living up to God’s standards, and so we accepted by God not on the basis of our own works, but on the basis of our relationship with Jesus.
With that in mind I don’t think there is such a thing as a statute of limitations in Christian theology. I agree with cerberus in that the statute of limitations is really based on the inability to effectively prosecute someone too far after the fact rather than on the idea it would somehow be unjust to rightly prosecute them.
There is also the biblical perspective that God delays judgement of people because of his mercy and his desire for people to repent (for instance in 2 Peter). Obviously as soon as you sin God knows about it, so if jugdement is not immediate than it is because God chooses to delay it. According to the bible the only way to avoid the punnishment of God is to have faith in Jesus.
In Christian theology suffering/reward in this life is only very loosely tied to your actions. There are many reasons why people suffer. Sometimes suffering comes as a result of your own sin. Sometimes it does not. In fact there is a strong theme in the bible that Christians suffer for doing good. Jesus, who was perfect, suffered. So then Christians who are supposed to be like Jesus shouldn’t be surprised when they suffer, even suffering for doing good.
Ultimately though all accounts as it were are settled at the general resurrection at the end of the world. That is when God will finally execute judgement on all creation. Until then God is giving us all time to repent before he holds us to account.
Just as a small nitpcik, I think that propitiate is a better word for expiate. Any I don’t really see how the propitatory sacrifce of Jesus allowing for the forgivness of sins could be a valid criticism of Christianity. Is it because it is felt that it is not fair? You might need to explain that a bit more for me to get it.
That being said when it comes to Karma I think it is an illogical and frankly cruel belief. Illogical in the sense that without some form or re-incarnation it makes no sense, since the suffering of people in this life clearly has little to do with their actions. People who act horribly are rich and comfortable until they die. Small children suffer terribly from illness, famine, ect. Unless you believe that these sorts of things happen becaise of the past lives of people then karma simply does not agree with the workd around us.
Another problem is the assumption that people can actually pay off their bad karma through some sort of process. This too, is somewhat doubtful. Part of the problem is that poverty and social standing are large factors in crime. So if someone does bad and is put in a lower state, that then actually increases their liklihood of doing more bad things, rather than decreasing it. It is entirely resonable to suppose that people could get trapped in what would be essentially negative feedback loops, where their bad actions lead to more poverty, which then leads to more bad actions and so on. There is little evidence that people actually do get better or kinder during their lifetime. In fact many people just get more bitter or more selfish.
I think karma is also a cruel belief in that if you take it seriously it means that people who are suffering deserve to suffer because they have done bad actions in the past. Compassion for those who are suffering is actually illogical, because really you should have no more compassion for the poor than you do for a murderer in prison. Each is there because of their own actions. Karma can also generate a sense of fatalism towards the poor. Since suffering/reward is apportioned by the cosmos according to one’s deeds, logically if someone is suffering then there is nothing that you can do to help them. Their suffering is caused by their bad Karma and therefore nothing can be done for them until they have paid off their karmic debt.
Joey Jo Jo
God, assuming he exists, according to the bible he has every right to judge you morally and legally because he created you, created the world in which you live, and is currently sustaining your life. You owe your entire existence to God. Of course he has the right to judge you if you take his gift of life and tell his to shove it.
Joey Jo Jo
Do you think parents have the moral right to punish their kids? If so, then what is the significant difference between that relationship and the hypothetical relationship between God and the people He created?
And if not, why not?
Nonsense. First, I was created by my parents and my own efforts, not God, even if he exists. People would have noticed if I < poof > appeared out of nowhere. He does not sustain me either; food, drink and oxygen do.
Even if the statement that I “owe your entire existence to God” was true, that would still give him no rights over me. Morally or legally.
First, parents care for their children; they don’t abandon them. Second, there is no relationship between anyone and God; he is either silent or nonexistent. Third, children cannot fend for themselves; we can. Fourth, parents have a very limited right to punish children, one which falls well short of, say, eternal hellfire.
The statue of limitations applies only to idolatry 
Nonsense.
If God exists and created this world (and by extension you) and any afterlife beyond it we are certainly subject to God’s whims in this matter. You do not have to agree with it or like it but there is nothing you can do to change it.
I think Christianity is a more cruel belief. If our only salvation comes through belief in Jesus that means the vast majority of the people in this world (who do not believe in Jesus since the majority of people on earth do not believe in this notion) are doomed regardless of their actions. Essentially even a non-christian version of Mother Theresa is doomed. That seems pretty awful to me.
Karma to me at least suggests your actions have a price. I do not know for certain if Karma allows for paying your karmic debt in an afterlife or in a reincarnated life (and if a reincarnted life does it have to be a human life or can you come back as a dung beetle?). At least it suggests the notion that you expiate your sins (or build up “good” karma to balance the bad) via good deeds and not simply rest on the idea that a belief in Jesus is all you have to do for salvation.
Actually doesn’t karma go along with the idea that via reincarnation we go round-and-round seeking enlightement? No need for judgement by some mystical being but rather we keep learning, via good and bad experiences, till we transcend our current selves. I may be conflating my eastern religions though so correct me if I am wrong.
Christianity is more about relationships, I agree. The central doctrine is we’re screwed via Original Sin, so even a “perfect” life is insufficient. The tool for this problem is “Salvation through Grace,” which sidesteps the problem entirely, via a literal Deus ex Machina, that is, the Christ.
The most extreme form of the relationship doctrines is that of Predestination/Election, wherein God has all the “Nice People” preselected, and the rest of us are just so much collatoral damage waiting to happen.
At least in Karma, the soul pays and learns as it goes … whether the knowledge or the ledger is visible per lifetime or not. And in contemplating karma, one has a constructive model for avoiding evil and doing good, as opposed to a fatalistic, inevitable sin model as posed by the Judeo-Christians.
Hate to break it to you, but you appear to be agreeing with me without realizing it. You didn’t give any reason why it is just for God to punish us; you just said that since he has the power, he can do whatever he wants. That is not morality or legality; that’s the Rule of the Jungle. An evil or amoral God can certainly do whatever he wants to do to me; that won’t make it right.
Buddhism and Hinduism may have very different views on Karma. At least they did when Buddha was developing his philosophy.
I lack sufficient confidence to expound on either view.