Stay at Home vs Working

Great Debates
21

Bucky, I’m sure you’ll find exceptions to every rule. Of course there are mothers out there who harm their children. Just as there are fathers out there who get divorced and never contact their kids again. That doesn’t mean we can make sweeping generalizations about ALL SAHM’s and all divorced dads.

Re your comments about children of stay-at-home mothers being “brats” is contrary to everything I’ve personally witnessed and also from what I’ve heard from teachers. In my experience, the “bratty” children are the ones whose parents refuse to discipline them, regardless of their working situation. The bratty kids are the ones whose parents say four and five times, “I will not tell you again to stop jumping on Mrs. Jones’ sofa!” and then never follow through. Children without discipline and rules end up being bratty.

As far as performance in school, my grandmother was a kindergarten teacher for over forty years, my cousin is an elementary school teacher, and four of my good friends are teachers (2 pre-school, one kindergarten, and one fourth grade teacher). I am also friends with four high school teachers.

And they all overwhelmingly say that the best students are the children of parents who take an active role in that child’s life – the kids of parents who go to PTO meetings, who attend open houses, who volunteer in the classroom, who ask for a conference if junior is slipping. The worst parents are the indifferent ones.

And I’d also go out on a limb and say to you that stay-at-home parents put their time, energy and talents into molding good, honest, worthwhile human beings. And if that is ALL they contribute to society, then they’ve done way more than most.

22

[[On the other hand, deep down I think it would be selfish of me to leave the child with someone else while I work.]]

Some people have the idea that is the “natural, olden days” way it used to work… Moms staying home to care for their children. The fact is that the whole notion is a recent phenonemon, and even then mostly among middle/upper-class Westerners. Everywhere else in the world, women have always worked outside the home and babies are either strapped to the back or left with aunties or neighbors.

In the 1950s when the stay-at-home-Mom thing really got popular, rarely did this seem to mean more quality time with the kids. As I recall, in my neighborhood at least, kids got stuck in a playpen or in front of the TV while Mom did housework or visited with the neighbors.

Nowadays, stay at home kids have the disadvantage of having fewer siblings to be socialized by, too. There are great day care centers in which kids can be with other older and younger children and have opportunities for all kinds of fun learning experiences. Our kids have thrived with this upbringing. My seven year old daughter is proud of what I do for a living, and can even spell “epidemiologist.”

Concerned about bonding with your kids? Get rid of the television. And then don’t worry about it.
Jill

23

[[My personal opinion is that it is bettter for the child if the mother stays home, but I don’t think less of anyone who has made a different decision.]]

Why the mother? Dads are parents, too. After breastfeeding (and even while, if you store milk and live near work), there’s no reason fathers can’t stay home with kids. Why is this a woman’s dilemma?

24

Bucky;

I didn’t realize that every statement requires a caviat that there may be exceptions. I don’t know exactly what gave you the impression that I am such a hermetic moron that I had no idea that any mother, anywhere, ever had caused any harm to her children.
I’ll try to remember in future conversations with you to be excruciatingly specific.

“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal

25

Damn.

Hermitic, hermitic, hermitic.

:::sigh:::

26

Whether it is right or not is something you’ll have to decide, but I find it hard to swallow the “it isn’t possible for me to not work” line.

It might mean living at a lower standard than you are used to, but the chances are, yes you COULD stop working. I haven’t worked since Nicky was born… When Nicky was about 1 my husband was making $7.50/hr and the three of us plus 4 cats lived in a one room studio apartment. We ate a lot of macaroni and cheese. It sucked. But we managed.

I’m not saying that this is what is right for you, I’m just saying that chances are, you COULD live on one income, you’d just have to give up some things.

27

C said:
" I also think that maybe I wouldn’t be as bonded to my kid as I should."

As I reread this topic, this one phrase really jumped at me.
Please, please, don’t imagine that if you work or don’t work will affect “bonding” with your child. If you are normal, you will be so in love with your child by the time s/he is born you’ll be amazed. Children love their parents the same way. Haven’t you read about how even the most mistreated, abused children all want to be with their parents? Being a normal parent who loves the child will ensure your child will love you!
Unless, of couse s/he is a genetic sociopath. Whether or not you remain close as the child becomes an independent adult depends on many factors, none of which is likely to be whether or not you were home with him/her while s/he was an infant.

And please, please, please never use that awful word “bonding”!

28

Smilingjaws said:

"And please, please, please never use that awful word “bonding”! "

What’s wrong with bonding?

A little crazy glue and I bond my daughter right to the wall where I can keep an eye on her!

kidding, kidding kidding, don’t flame me.

29

For starters, all parents are working parents.

I work outside the home, and my husband is a stay-at-home-dad, plus being a musician. My salary goes towards, well, pretty much everything, because he’s not working much right now. Truth is, he’s always played guitar, and never really did much in the way of “straight jobs.” Having him stay home was just a given. We’ve got a three-year-old girl and a four-month-old boy.

My kids have never been in day care, but that’s mostly because it’s expensive. I didn’t simply say “I will not put my kids in day care!” I’m going to be starting my daughter in day care soon, probably this spring or summer. She’s got lots of cousins, but she doesn’t see them too much. When she does, she gets along famously with them. But she needs more short people to hang out with.

My daughter is, well, she’s “spirited.” HA! I think it’s because her dad is her primary caretaker. He’s a guy. He watches her, but he doesn’t hover. He allows her to be a kid, and doesn’t freak every time she falls down. She’s bright, confident, and happy.

I think a large part of the reason my kids are doing so well (my son doesn’t do much, actually, but he’s darn happy to be here) is because my husband and I are happy in our roles. They see what we do, and know that we like doing it. We’ve got our complaints, of course, but what job doesn’t?
Do what makes you happy, and make your time with your child count, whether it’s all day or a few hours after you get home from work.

Don’t worry about bonding. It’ll happen. Sometimes it happens before the baby is born, sometimes after. It doesn’t always happen the instant you lay eyes on the kid, either. It can take a while.

One more tip: When you do get pregnant, I highly recommend The Girlfriend’s Guide to Pregnancy, by Vicki Iovine. You will laaaaaaaaugh. You’ll need to. You won’t laugh much those first few weeks. You’ll be too tired.

Changing my sig, because Wally said to, and I really like Wally, and I’ll do anything he says, anytime he says to.

30

Scylla: Crazy glue? What, are you nuts? That stuff will do some serious damage to your paint. I prefer Velco, but double-sided tape will work in a pinch. :wink:

Changing my sig, because Wally said to, and I really like Wally, and I’ll do anything he says, anytime he says to.

31

Cristi:
Tried velcro, but after the first month the kid got too heavy. I’d hang her up and in a couple of minutes I’d hear the velco riiiip, lose and then SPLAT! she’d hit the floor. After that she won’t stop crying until I give here a whole bottle of Nyquil. Even then she wakes up in a day or so hungry and with a dirty diaper. What am I to do?

32

Scylla: Coat hooks. The sturdy brass ones. Functional, yet elegant.

And don’t forget to take the kids’ shoes off before you hang 'em up there. They kick those feet & leave scuff marks on the walls.

Changing my sig, because Wally said to, and I really like Wally, and I’ll do anything he says, anytime he says to.

33

then

Depends on what you were trying to say: If you are totally sealed off from the world, you are, indeed, hermetic (from Hermes Trismegistus–a Greek perception of the Egyptian Thoth–who created a magical seal for totally airtight containers).
If you live by yourself in seclusion, you are hermitic, (although that word is rare).

Tom~

34

I’m in the “do what works best for your family” camp. I felt a serious pull between being a fulltime homebody and working. I worked from the time Bowen was four months old till he was 16 months old. Admittedly, the serious dive in the quality of my work atmosphere was a big reason for me leaving, but rather than getting another job, I felt that I belonged at home with my son…and I’m glad to be doing things this way, because while there are plenty of jobs that sound like fun, I don’t think that there’s anything I’d rather do than stay home and be Mrs. Cleaver.

I don’t think that having him at home rather than at a daycare has a negative impact on his social skills or his intellectual development. His father and I talk to him, read to him, and teach him important things like “You don’t need to tip the cup if it has a straw in it.” and “Crayons are used for coloring paper, not walls.” He’ll be two in April and he’s doing a great job at learning his ABCs and 123s, he knows all his body parts, the names of all his loved ones, where the potty is and how it’s used, he has a really great vocabulary, he knows how to share and play nicely, he drops what he’s doing when I say “night-night” and heads up the stairs to his bedroom, etc. (Note to Veb: Jeez, typing all this, he really DOES sound like a Stepford child.)

At any rate, clearly, this is what worked for my family. There are lots of ways to function on a single income, (check out www.miserlymoms.com or www.stretcher.com)) if being a stay home parent is what you’re interested in. But there’s no reason for working parents to feel guilty simply because they work. Either way, you’re teaching your child to do what they feel is right for them.

“…being normal is not necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage.”

35

I’m not a parent, but, hey, I’m a former child! So I thought I’d add a few thoughts.

C3, I have to tell you, the first thought that came to my mind when I read your first post was that of course your mom was going to be critical of your stay-at-home sister! Your mom made the decision to work, so perhaps your mom is convincing herself a little too hard that her decision is “Right” for everyone, including her daughters. I disagree. Frankly, my measly 2 cents on this is that your mom should lay off your sister. I mean, your sister is her own person, with a unique family situation. Even though I don’t know your mom, and may be totally full of it, I almost suspect a little bit of defensivness in your mom’s reaction to your sister.

To quote PunditLisa:

I think that’s the answer. I see some terrible bratty kids with working moms, and with stay at home moms, the common denominator is that the parents have innefectual discipline habits.

My mom was a “stay-at-home” mom until I was age 7. I still remember the day she went to work - I really missed her. I am glad she was there to help bring me up. I never liked being cared for by neighbors or other non-parental units. (So often, when I complained about something I didn’t like about the neighbor, my parents didn’t believe me. After all, I was just a kid.)

I think the reason I didn’t turn into a horrible brat (and I didn’t, really) was because my mom was not a “wimp” in discipline. Also, even though my mom didn’t work outside of the home, she had her music to play. (She is a singer and plays the piano beautifully.) I grew up listening to her pound on that piano and sing for hours. So, for her, her “creativity” was not being stifled by being at home with the kids.

My sister has two kids, and while she really would have preferred to stay at home and raise them, she did not feel she could. Those kids are well-behaved and loved. I don’t think my sister did a terrible thing by not being there all the time to raise them. However, I know that she would not have harmed their development had she stayed home to raise them. She’s a good mom - it wouldn’t have worked that way.

My personal input would be to perhaps try to find a part-time job, or not work. (I’m biased, I was raised with a mom around a lot, I just think it’s nicer.) I understand that it would be important for a woman to still fulfill her own creative and intellectual needs and desires (like my mom and her piano) so perhaps a part-time job could help fulfill that, or else some other endeavor that would not take you out of the home full-time.

However, I know from my sister’s example that working is not a terrible, awful thing to do either. My sister has done beautifully for her children, and is very devoted.

But, I would vehemently disagree that day care is better than a mom (or dad) at home. I remember my childhood with my mom with great fondness, and I remember missing her not being there when she went back to work. It was not harmful to me to not be put in day care. (Though I did go to preschool at about age 3.) I was reading and writing (a little) before I got to school, and I had little trouble making friends. And, thanks to my mom’s creativity, my sisters and I had many creative skills, did many projects, crafts, etc. She was always involved in our development.

36

Sheesh! My two cents went on for rather long!

I just wanted to correct myself - it was your sister-in-law, not your sister. Sorry about that.

37

Jill,

The reality is, that most men not only have this feeling that they are the keepers of bringing home the bacon (society still has yet to disprove this theory, it’s a manly thing) but men, for the most part make more money than women do.

Although the wages for same work are starting to come closer, it’s still men that, on average, make more money.

That said, if a couple is willing to forego the big screen TV, the $30,000 SUV and the 3,000 square foot house, the childs’ chances of having a better life I would gather, does depend on both parents involvement. I know it and I see it. My brother is a very, very busy man, but makes time for his kids, something that our father rarely did.

BUT, my sis-in-law is the primary care-taker when it comes to my niece and nephew. If my brother were to quit his job and my sis-in-law were the soul bread winner, they would be living a life of “poverty” compared to what they live now.

Hope that made sense, as it’s pretty close for beddy bye.

38

Can’t men breastfeed now? I mean, if they really want to?
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39

Tonndebb;

Thanks, I knew that. I intended originally to use “hermitic”, but instead typed “hermetic”. I knew the definitions of both and realized there was some overlap and also that either fit my sentiment. In the end, I decided to go with my orginal thought. Thanks for noticing though. That’s what I love about this board—y’all are so smart :slight_smile:

“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal

40

Well, ya know, you can adopt. Then you get all kinds of smarmy looks of approval from people who never seem to offer to babysit.