-IF- I recall correctly (and I usually do with useless, trivial knowledge)
It was Voltaire, the 18th century philosopher, who is attributed to that quote.
As for my take on the whole situation–Eminem’s a shock-artist. It’s been done before. Think Howard Stern. Their success lies in their ability to be crude and undignified.
I don’t watch TV anymore–or listen to FM radio. I’ve never even seen Eminem or heard any of his music. So maybe I’m just being ignorant–but it’s also surprisingly blissful…
With that in mind, isn’t the best way to get rid of an annoyance just to ignore it?
Primaflora, I don’t detect any sarcasm in Mercutios post, nor does he come across as homophobic or sexist. Well, there’s the thread title of course - choice of words is an important thing, obviously. But other than that, I fully agree with him.
oldscratch, I don’t really understand why you keep rolling your eyes at Revtim. Because he doesn’t care about what a mediocre white rapper has to tell the world?
Count me in the same group as Revtim. It’s only important when you pay too much attention to it.
I am referring to another encounter I had with Mercutio where he posted a sexist comment. He assured us all it was merely sarcasm :rolleyes: I personally don’t find sexist and homophobic remarks to be sarcastic and witty. File me under humourless feminist if you want to.
I also note with interest that he will defend his right to an opinion but appears to think that other interest groups should just shut it. FWIW I fully support Mercutio’s right to an opinion but I also support the right to free speech of groups he doesn’t agree with. Eminem can say whatever the hell he wants to but the groups he defames can and should have the right of reply.
I don’t have any problems boycotting stores, record labels, etc., not for the reason “I have a right to,” but rather that I want to. Why on earth would I want to financially subsidize a person/performer/group/company that stands against the ideals in which I believe? Coors had a virulent anti-gay stance for decades, and the gay community boycotted their beer for years. Finally, they wised up, and guess what? Not only are they a better company than they were 20 years ago towards gays, blacks and women, but they even sponsored some big queer events.
That, to me, is positive change. And if boycotting Eminem helps him die a quicker chart death, then so be it. Just because he’s popular, and because he has a right to speak his mind, doesn’t mean he necessarily should.
I giggle when I see 5 talking heads on MSNBC or CNN raging about this doofus, or these groups staging boycotts. It’s self-defeating! Look, in entertainment, there is no such thing as bad press. I tell ya, Eminempty looooves all the protesting, and he loves the outrage. It sells records.
Spoofe, please explain this statement. Are white people not allowed get involved in Hip-Hop?
C’mon, Spoofe, you’re smarter than that.
I agree with you that there are bigger fish to fry. But the fact that people get outraged at him is what drives him on.
Eminem can go from being a very funny, quickwitted, and intellegent person to being a total asshole very quickly. even in the course of a song. On his last Album, I love some of the tracks, but there are others I will not listen to.
I like Eminem’s music, but would enjoy him alot more if he stopped acting like a kid who is prodding his pet with a stick to see what will happen.
Once you start something, where do you stop? No one stopped the Spice Girls singing (and thousands of underage girls singing along to) “Come a little bit closer baby, get it on, get it on”. I don’t think that this should have been censored, but once the ball gets rolling, who draws the line where it stops?
Do people who despise Eminem and everything he stands for spontaneously lose their right to say so? Last time I checked, freedom of speech permits groups and individuals to boycott indiscriminately, clamor for supression, and behave as poorly as they want to behave. Freedom applies not only to the perpetrator of offensive speech but to his deterrents as well, however misguided they may be. Only a hypocrite would defend the rights of one and ignore those of the other.
While I understand that some people find the things he raps about offensive, and there’s nothing wrong with expressing outrage over what he says, it does seem to me that the amount of attention he receives in this matter is out of proportiation with the amount of difference him and his contemparies in the rap genre. While there are certainly rappers who do not express the same sentiments in their music, or don’t do so as explicitely, there are quite a few others who do, and it’s been that way for a lot longer than Eminem has been around.
Does he recieve more attention simply because he is more visible? Possibly, since Allen Iverson recieved quite a bit of criticism recently when lyrics from his upcoming album were published, and what he was saying was fairly commonplace within rap. But if the objective is to stop hateful speach from being commerically viable, I don’t understand boycotting a record store over Eminem being sold, but not, say, Nas. While Eminem is obviously more commerically viable than Nas (based on record sales), the selling of Nas’s music is still profitable obviously, or it wouldn’t be sold.
Err… The first sentence of my above post should end “… is out of proportiation with the amount of difference between him and his contemperaries in the rap genre”. Bleh.
In this interview he said that Eminem was basically saying with his music to all artists, that they can say anything and get away with it. Duh! This is America, there is plenty of music I dont agree with because of the way is it portrays women, hispanics, blacks, what have you, but once this music gets popular someone has to attack it.**
So, Eminem exercised his right to write music and lyrics. Okay. Other groups have exercised their right to speak out and say his music is stupid and particularly hateful against various minorities.
Both sides have exercised their right of free speech; what’s your problem?
Just because society is oppressive against you does not give you the right to rewrite to constitution.
No one’s said ANYTHING about re-writing or amending the US Constitution. I see you get your exercise jumping to conclusions.
That’s exactly it! I believe in free speech, but I also believe in self-censorship, when appropriate. He is marketed almost as a poster boy, like Nsync and Brittney. He’s on TRL, for Chrissake! That makes him a role-model for the kids that will hear his music. He needs to think about what he says and what impressionable young children will think when they hear the lyrics. But as was stated earlier in the thread, he is just an over-grown eighth grader who loves to shock people just for the attention, even (or especially) if it’s negative.
Now to totally contradict myself, I think “Stan” is a great song–if you are old enough to understand that stuffing your pregnant girlfriend in a trunk and driving off a bridge isn’t proper behavior.
You don’t like Eminem, don’t buy his CDs. Boycotting businesses who sell his music and forcing these establishments to remove his music takes away our right to purchase.
Tell the world the reasons why we shouldn’t buy certain things, but then let me make my own decision whether or not I wish to spend my money. Don’t make that decision for me.
We don’t need more Tipper Gores appointing themselves as our lyric babysitters. I find it degrading that others feel that I need protection from things they deem bad.
There aren’t many differences between twisted fundies boycotting establishments who feature gay material and those who support businesses who sell Eminem’s music.
Well, I wouldn’t boycott the place to shut it down. I would just boycott it so that I would not be supporting it.
FWIW, my sister wanted to get his album a while back, right after someone told me about the song Kim. So I found the article at Salon and gave it to my mother. Sis was forbidden to get the album. (She doesn’t like him anymore.)
See, if I had a child who wanted to get his album, I wouldn’t allow it, until they were 18. Don’t like it? Well, I’m sorry. That man is sick. I mean, come on-let’s write a song about killing our spouse and have sounds of her choking while we scream, “BLEED! BITCH-BLEED!!!” While our daughter watches!
Hopefully quoting pieces of lyrics aren’t violating anything, if so, I site my source: the above article:
When I heard a clip of the above on television one night, I had to leave the room, it made me ill. I had a NIGHTMARE that night about Eminem coming to kill me. This guy is scary.
It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder-what the FUCK kind of parent is he? I mean, his daughter will no doubt hear about this, and how he pulled a gun on his wife and another guy when she gave him a kiss. Yeah, that’s a REAL healthy environment.
That is the ONE thing I will give credit to Aguilera for is that she stood up and said that Eminem isn’t the ideal role model and that women should not put up with that kind of thing.
I’m not saying that he should be banned, or not be allowed to sell his music-or even that people shouldn’t be allowed to buy it and support him if they wish. I don’t like it that people support the KKK, but that is their right. HOWEVER, I’m sick and tired of him being applauded for it-MTV is constantly sucking this guy’s dick while running their “Stop the Violence” Campaigns. Pot-Kettle-Black.
Ah, thank you. I’m not quite sure where people think that me, or even a group of mes, somehow guarantees that a store/producer/company will either go out of business or automatically remove said boycotted item from its shelves. Coors certainly didn’t go out of business for the many years the entire gay community boycotted it, so I don’t see how people who don’t care for Eminem boycotting his records will somehow mean he’ll disappear without anyone getting the chance to listen to him ever.
However, we all know that money talks, particularly in the entertainment industry. If he says hateful things, and people stop buying his albums because of it, that’s not denying anyone the freedom of speech, that’s just his own failure at capitalism, which is not, I’m afraid, guaranteed by the Constitution.
Listen to yourselves. Are you seriously saying that I have the moral duty to shop at a particular store because it carries Eminem? No? Then shut the fuck up about the boycott. I will and won’t shop at particular stores as I please.
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Tell the world the reasons why we shouldn’t buy certain things, but then let me make my own decision whether or not I wish to spend my money. Don’t make that decision for me.
Eminem exercises his right of free speech by selling his lyrics. The detractors exercise their right by calling for a boycott. The stores exercise their freedom by caving in to or ignoring the protestors. Corporations can express free speech, too. Who says a corporation has to cater to your tastes. It’s a FREE market!
Matt - Speaking only for myself, I am not suggesting that you shop at a store that sells material you find offensive. When I said “boycott” I was referring to those people who attempt to force an establishment out of business or to at least dictate what they can and can not sell. In other words, appointing themselves the protectors of society.
FWIIW, I too find Eminem discusting (although I really do like the song Stan. I can’t help it, I like it.) but attempting to close down a business or force them to take something off their shelves because of personal taste (or distaste), really isn’t a far cry from the fundies who picket the local book store for selling gay magazines. This is what I meant by the word “boycott”.
Diane, you explained very elequently at what point a boycott goes from an expression of ones beliefs to something that restricts the freedoms of others. Thank you.
Yes, I am qouting msyelf to go over this once more from the top.
I spoke only of a spokesperson for the Gay and Lesbian (Organization?) and I dont think he speaks for gay people evrywhere or for a majority of them, If you read this carefully, I was complaining about him and his misuse of power.
Me, a homophob? Hardly, my best friend of most of my life is gay and me and him fight for gay rights on a regular basis at different functions. NOT ONCE did I attack the gay community, I attacked the spokesman, once again because of his misuse of power when he spoke of censoring Eminem’s music.
Do I like Eminem and support him? Nope. Do I like the constitution and the rights it gives me and do I support them? I sure do.
Am I singling out gays? Of course not! If you read my OP carefully, I speak about everyone and that no one has the right to say, “Hey, I don’t like this, I deem this immoral, have this censored promptly” A la Tipper Gore and her Bouffant Encrusted Thought Police, the PMRC.
And finally, Primaflora. This is a whole new thread. Not once did I attack the gays, I attacked the gay man who said these remarks in my thread title and in my OP. And yes, you took my sarcastic remark in the wrong light in another thread. But this a new thread, with a new subject. If you want to settle things out, by all means contact me, if you wish to keep grumbling on about 1 sentence in 1 OP, by all means do. I frankly could care less, except for the fact that no one knows the real me and therefore does not know how I am, so somethings taken the wrong way could hurt any future relationship with the SDMB and it’s Users.
So, yes. This thread has grown nicely, though it’s off the basis of which I started it on.
That is the most accurate description of Eminem’s career that I’ve ever seen! DNFSS