I might not shop at a given store. I might even boycott a given store. But I can’t force anyone else not to shop at a given store. They will choose to boycott or not, just like I have. And if the store goes out of business, it’s its own damn fault for pissing off its target market. And that’s a matter not of political correctness, but of market correctness. He who lives by the sword, etc.
And really, if a performer as far up the fame & wealth hierarchy as Eminem has his free speech endangered by a bunch of little granola protesters (like myself), he has really got more problems than are my lookout.
Diane: It seems to me we have different ideas as to what constitutes a boycott. For me, a boycott is when I avoid purchasing a given product or patronizing a given enterprise for political reasons and encourage others to do the same. I’ve been boycotting McDonalds, Nike, car companies, and coffee companies by this definition for several years now. I’m hardly picketing in front of McDonalds. And I’m not taking away their right to sell a given product or try to see that it be taken away. I’m just not giving them my business, on the theory that if enough people agree with me and not give them their business, the product will be withdrawn for commercial reasons.
If this worries Eminem, my heart really fuckin’ bleeds. There are lots of performers whose albums do not go into multiplatinum who aren’t bitching about their first amendment rights. Just because nobody is buying your CD doesn’t mean your right to expression has been infringed.
Fucking bloody hell! I mean, does not shopping at a place because you don’t like it amount to a boycott and dismissal of freedom of speech?
I don’t like race car driving. I don’t shop at Racing Fan at the mall-does that mean I’m endangering Jeff Gordon or whatever?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Eminem has every right to say what he pleases. And WE have every right to call him a sick fuck. I mean, my GOD I worry about his daughter growing up and hearing a song about her father killing her mother…how will that affect her? Or hearing Daddy brag about getting his friends to gang rape his little sister? OH, yeah, that’s REALLY some important speech right there.
:rolleyes:
I’m sorry, but I hate, I mean, truly LOATHE Eminem. Other artists have been raked over the coals for doing much less than he has-why is everyone sucking his dick?
well if no one knows the real you, then don’t be surprised that when you post something that is sexist, and then attempt to claim it was sarcastic, that some of us are gonna look at your posts with a jaundiced eye. FWIW no matter how many times I examine your post about golf with my sarcasm meter, I can’t find anything remotely witty or sarcastic in it. ::shrug::
And sorry, but attacking the rights of a gay organisation to call for a boycott on a particular artist does come across as homophobic to me. You might feel that it is not but it is not exactly gay friendly to support the rights of a homophobic, sexist artist to express himself and at the same time say that calling for a boycott somehow is not an acceptable expression of freedom of speech.
I Never said anything about boycotting. This is a matter I did not bring up at all! If the Gay communiy wishes to boycott his music, good for them, they are taking a stand for what they believe in. Though they shouldnt boycott the sotre, they should boycott him if they wish, because it is him they have a problem with, not the store.
I dont mean this harshly, but I did not ever talk about boycotting, look at the thread yourself, please do not put words in my mouth.
He wasnt calling for a boycott, he was calling to censor someone.
I never talked about anyone not being able to boycott.
First, there is no “Gay and Lesbian Organization.” He probably was from GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation), or some such group. Second, without a cite, I can’t find, based on your quote (“that Eminem was basically saying with his music to all artists, that they can say anything and get away with it.”) that he was calling for an immediate censorship of Eminem. Third, as has already been pointed out, he was speaking his mind, just as Eminem speaks his.
General question - Eminem speaks directly about killing people; nay, he encourages it. Isn’t this incitement? Aren’t there already laws on the books that deal with this? Isn’t he clouding the issue by claiming “artistic license?” Legally, where is the line drawn? Is the only difference the fact that people actually pay to hear his drivel?
“Why, some of my best friends…” Please.
I see no one’s constitutional rights being infringed here. Give us a cite, and then maybe we can talk factually, but basing this entire argument off your memory is spurious.
Welcome to the SDMB - “We’re off topic by the third post, or your membership’s free!”
How dare you hint that my relationship with my friend is nothing but a sham. Excuse me if the the guy I am nagging at happpened to be gay and I just happened to be the best, not one of the best, the best, friend to a gay man and vice versa.(Not Sarcasm, Primaflora) This isnt about the fact that I some gay guy got me mad. This is about the fact that some guy got me mad when saying that censorship is perfectly okay. Thats why I started the whole thread. The fact that they guy was a spokesperson for a gay and lesbian is a miniscule detail that has been blown out of poportion, yes, I know this goes against the thread name itself, but I was mad at him and they didnt show his name and he was entrusted with representing a gay orginization, thas the only reason “gay” ever came up.
This is not a gay thread.
It’s a censorship thread.
I make that pretty clear in my OP.
And please do not act like no one else has ever had a misleading thread title. I did it to attract attention. Sue me.
Another SDMB rule you should learn to live and love - quote your sources. So far this entire thread has been based on something somebody from some group said about something having to do with Eminem. I, for one, would like to see the call for censorship you’re railing against. Then we can talk turkey.
I personally have no problem with this, I don’t see it as a threat to my freedom to buy whatever I want.
It’s the people with the stated intention to make a manufacturer or publisher or store or whatever stop supplying something, because of their protests/boycotts threats, that I feel go to far.
From the articles at Salon.com The excerpts of his lyrics.
Not saying Salon may be the end all and be all, but it does point out the disgusting lyrics.
If I think something is offensive, I have the right to not shop a a store that carries it. I have even gone so far as to write to a store telling them exactly why I will no longer shop there. And I tell my friends about it. Is this a boycott?
For the record, Eminem’s lyrics turn my stomach, but apparently not enough for me to not shop at stores that carry it, which I have not even considered. I guess it never occurred to me.
I don’t even know who sells him and who doesn’t, since I really don’t pay much attention to it. I’ll still buy things from Amazon, even though they sell his records. I just chose not to buy anything associated with Eminem himself.
Mercutio
I think the reason you copped so much flack on this is because of a very poorly chosen title. If what you claim in your various later defenses is true, you should have headed it “Step back, censor, step back”. Your objections should have been the same if the speaker you are complaining about represented some other group attacked by Eminem or, for that matter, was a WASP. The point being the censorship or suggestion of boycotts. So why put the word gay in the title?
The thread’s name is very important. In this case it has added an extra issue to the whole debate. You claim you wanted it to be about free speach, including even Emernam’s right to that, and that no-one (no matter what group he identifies with) should try to repress that. But the issue kept coming in about whether Mercutio wants to limit a particular GAY person’s right to free expression in criticising Emerman.
My initial impression, before I even opened the thread, was "here’s someone who feels that “gay man” (which I took to be generic ie applying to the gay culture) has been hogging the airwaves and should take a less proactive role now, or something like that. I opened the thread not because I like that view but because I am new to SDMB and wanted to see what responses such an “unsympathetic to gay outspokenness” view would draw out from the membership. Some people are offended because gay activists have been too “in your face” but their struggle is far from won. To ask them to “step back” now is like asking them to return to the closet.
OK I can try to correct my initial impression of what you intended your OP to be about. But it’s hard to do. As I say, if the issue is really about Emerman’s rights and censorship the alleged boycotter’s gayness was hardly worth a mention.
There’s another issue that came in because you were forced to defend yourself, mainly because of your choice of title.
Whether you have one, or many or no gay friends is irrelevant (and no defence). What matters in this situation is what you express in this situation. You even mention your gay “best friend” in your first message, before any criticisms came in. Do you remember the old saying “some of my best friends are Jews”? Because it usually accompanied some anti-semitic comment, it ended up having the opposite effect to that intended.
“Of course, some of my best friends are Jews” became an indicator that the speaker was a bigot. If nobody remembers that era, maybe I am indicating my age!
Eminem might have the legal right to say what he likes…but I have read the lyrics of some of his music. Let’s face it, the lyrics are inflammatory and inciting, in my opinion.
Eminem might think he’s a poster boy for Freedom of Speech, but if his lyrics incite someone to murder a “faggot” in cold blood…
There are already too many Matthew Sheppards in this homophobic society.
Although I dont like Eminem, I have to say that although most of his stuff is horrible, some of it is quite cleverly written. Any Eminem fans who know any of his good lyrics in support?