I was reading a comment on one of Cecil’s letters…i cant seem to find it now, but it was someone commenting on the fact that some stigmatists have wounds through their wrists and some through their hands. He pointed out that in itself should be enough to prove its fake. Though its been proven that no one could have been held up by the palms of his hands on a cross, it doesnt mean stigmata cannot occur there. I have no direct belief, but i think stigmata is a mix of pyschosomatic symptoms and deep love and faith for jesus. People recieving the wounds of christ on the wrist or the palms could be explained by the historical change and beliefs. As people come to terms with knowing what they had previously thought about jesus, is now different, it might alter the mental perception of things. But hey, what do i know? Im just a curious 14 year old. :rolleyes:
This might be the column:
What’s the deal with stigmata?
Uh, I’m not sure what your objection is. I think Cecil covered all those points, from confusion over whether it could be psychosomatic to the inability to prove the location of the nails and also the irrelevance of that to whether stimata are psychosomatic or surruptitiously self-inflicted.
pixievixen is probably questioning this frag:
“Even if I were disposed to believe in divine intervention, the variety in the appearance and location of the wounds on different stigmatics argues strongly that this is a matter of, how shall I say, human handiwork,”
and this one in a follow-up letter:
“It’s well known that the Romans discovered very early that nails through the hands and feet (especially the hands) would not support the weight of the body and would rip through the hands very quickly. Anyone with stigmata of the palms, therefore, would definitely be bogus”
Her argument, I think, is that they could still be happening to sincere people. Locations that disagree with each other (and thus, at least some must not be where Christ had them) perhaps mean that God isn’t doing this, but don’t mean the person is ‘faking.’
FWIW, I think Cecil addresses that in the first column, although perhaps pixievixen believes you don’t need to self-inflict the wound and then delude yourself - you could just believe it so much that it happens without any sort of sharp poking thingy.
Thanks to dantheman for helping me find the column and Bup for pointing out what even i didnt know i meant.
Read the column again. Look closely.
Yep, Cecil explicitly stated that possibility. Psychosomatic means the wounds are manifestations of psychological disorder. No sharp poking thingy required.
So, again, what is the complaint?
There was never a complaint anywhere just a statement. I was simply commenting on a post by a reader:
“In your recent column regarding stigmata you failed to mention one very important fact. In most cases the stigmata displayed by “stigmatists” manifest on the palms and the feet. It’s well known that the Romans discovered very early that nails through the hands and feet (especially the hands) would not support the weight of the body and would rip through the hands very quickly. Anyone with stigmata of the palms, therefore, would definitely be bogus.”
I was saying that the stigmatists perception of jesus would have something to do with the palm/wrist thing. I know what psychosomatic means in this case, and I was saying that IF there was a god inflicting these wounds on a person, he could be taking into consideration their perception of him…and when they recieve a wound…depending on how they see it, it could appear palm or wrist…but may I reiterate, I am just a curious 14 year old.
fawkin losea’s
Okay, I see. You’re not commenting on the column per se, but the followup question and the claim that poor wound placement would immediately mean fakery. You’re pointing out that if they are psychosomatic, then the incorrect location is only because the person having the mental delusion doesn’t know where they should go, but can still be sincere. Gotcha.
And the other wasn’t directed at you, but bup, who appears not to know what psychosomatic means.
mandarth:
a) Please learn to spell.
b) If you meant what I think you meant (fucking losers) then your comment is inappropriate in this forum. Personal insults are not allowed. Please read the guidelines for posting, the other FAQ in the “About This Message Board” forum, and the description of each forum at the message board home page.
Irishman-
Thank you so much because now if anyone asks me what it is i mean exactly, what you said is so much simpler than what i could ever say. Thanks.