Stolen cell phone: is it worth anything?

Factual Questions
1

Someone stole my cell phone a couple days ago.:mad: I had it deactivated within about a 1/2 hour, and I’m wondering about something the guy at Verizon told me --pause to note the minor miracle that I managed to reach a live body at Verizon within a half hour–
so phone guy said that once it was deactivated no-one could use it again because it was set up for their system, and that because I’d reported it stolen, no-one else would be able to reactivate that particular phone.

Anyone know if this is true? I hear about stolen cell phones pretty regularly, why anyone would bother unless there’s money in it?

Or is it just fun to break car windows, and the phone was just to further ruin my day? :frowning:

2

All cell phones have a unique ESN (electronic serial number) that is used to identify the phone to any cell system. Why would someone steal cell phones?

  • Not all thieves know that a stolen cell phone can not be re-used
  • They try to use it before it is reported
  • They can clone another ESN number into the phone
  • Maybe the phone can be used overseas, but I doubt that
    Jim
3

I work for a cell phone company, so here’s the answers:

1.) If a cell phone’s reported as stolen, we enter that into the system, unless the original owner calls in to state that they’ve recovered their phone, any time anyone tries to use the phone, they’re automatically routed to our call center. Unless they can prove they’re the legal owner, we won’t activate it for them.

2.) The codes necessary to program a phone are proprietary to each service provider, so you can’t take a Verizon phone and have Cingular activate it for you. (Verizon’s phones won’t work on Cingular’s network because of incompatible technologies, but even if they were compatible, you still wouldn’t be able to activate a Verizon phone with Cingular service.)

3.) By law, all cell phones have to be able to dial 911 even if the phone has been stolen, had its account cancelled or written off.

4.) In most cases US cell phones cannot be used overseas as the technology is totally incompatible. (Most European cellular networks are GSM based and few US networks are. China and Japan both have some networks that use the same technology as the US, but in all likelihood the phone won’t work there simply because its not registered as a “native” phone and you’d have to enter in your credit card number before making a phone call.)

5.) Cloners don’t need the actual cell phone to clone your phone, usually. Depending upon the type of cell phone you have, it may be “impossible” (i.e. no one’s done it yet) for them to clone your phone. Verizon’s technology is supposedly impossible to clone. (The digital side of it, at least, in analog mode its possible.)

6.) People steal cell phones for three reasons: A.) They can sell use on them for people to make long distance phone calls, even international calls, if that feature has been enabled on the particular cell phone. B.) They can sell the phone to some poor unsuspecting schmuck on a street corner or to a pawn shop fairly easily. I’ve had several people call up and try to activate stolen phones that they bought from a total stranger for almost nothing. C.) If they can reach an idiot at customer service before the owner of the phone does, they can con the CSR into making changes to the account that enable the thief to use the phone for an extended period of time. (Rare, but it does happen.)

4

Tuckerfan;

I agree that the technology for Verizon vs Cingular may be different (CDMA vs TDMA). But some Verison phones can be used overseas since they are tri-band capable. I just used a Verison V60 in Asia.

I know the thieves can snatch an ESN off the airwaves. When I mention cloning, I meant that they could clone a hot ESN onto the stolen phone.
Jim

5

I suppose that it might be possible to clone a different ESN onto the phone, but with CDMA phones that’d probably be pretty difficult. So far, the technology to capture CDMA phones information OTA hasn’t made it to the streets, so I imagine that they can’t screw with the ESNs on them yet. No doubt someone will do it, though. Its only a matter of time.

6

I used to work in a small paging/cellular store on Long Island, NY. I had many people come in trying to re-activate a lost/stolen phone from off the street. Our store delt mainly with AT&T Wireless.

AT&T’s policy regarding lost/stolen phones was at the time (98-00) was if it was reported lost or stolen it could be reactivated in about 30 days. The execption to this was if the previous owner gave them a copy of a police report proving the phone was stolen, then it could not ever be re-activated.

7

Do you not have SIM Cards in the US? Is your account carried on the phone?

In Europe, the phone has nothing to do with your service provider. Instead they give you a SIM Card which slots into the phone somewhere. The account details, functions, etc are carried onto the phone through that. It means you can switch accounts across phones. If your phone happens to be stolen, you can disable the SIM Card, but the phone can still be used. Granted, you need to buy a new SIM Card, but that’s often a lot cheaper or the criminal might already have one.

8

I was in a verizon wireless store yesterday and he (verizon tech person) said something along the lines that some identification number is no longer hard coded into the phone and can be changed. basically stolen phones can be reused.

9

I work for Motorola in their Cellular Infrastructure division (until I get laid off, at least) that make the equipment that connects mobile phones to the land based telephone network. CDMA information (Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T Wireless) cannot be taken over the air. They are encrypted with 64 bit codes that only the mobile and the base station knows. You could try to cycle through all the codes until you find the right one, and unless you are really lucky, it will take a long time.

To steal information from a GSM (voicestream, so to be Tel Mobile) or another TDMA tech (Cingular, Nextel) phone, you need to trick the phones into thinking that you are a base station so you can sync up with their timeslots.

The only way to change the ESN or any other preprogramed info on any phone is by using that company’s proprietary software. So if you want to change any info on a Motorola phone, you need Motorola’s software. Motorola’s software won’t know what to do with a Nokia phone.

10

snermy, kids do stuff like that without knowing the security features. Say, what does a new
phone cost you?

11

I knew someone would have an answer. Or several :wink: , thanks DarkScooterPie and TuckerFan esp. Very informative.

Sounds like it likely won’t do s/he any good unless they can find someone even more clueless willing to buy it for a pittance.

Good!

handy , that was my first thought too, some kid.
Especially since whoever did it didn’t have a clue on how to take out the radio, s/he just gouged the heck out of the casing/dash w/ a screwdriver or something . Phone was only worth about 80 bucks new, isn’t that ridiculous?

12

What about fraud? You say it CAN’T be reactivated or WON’T. There is a difference. Supposing I’m shady and work for Verizon. My buddy steals phones. The person reports it stolen. I just go ahead and reactivate it (with another account so the person, it was stole from, doesn’t get billed.)

Would the person whom it was stolen from ever know?

13

Insecta:

No, US phones do not have SIM cards in them like Asian and European phones do. It is a good idea with pros and cons. For people that travels a lot, pros being that you can have your phone across multiple networks so there will never be roaming charges and a person can have an account in several countires. Cons being that your phone is useful for thieves.

Even without SIM cards, there are several phones that be programmed for 2-3 phone numbers on different networks.

The US service providers probably feel that Americans usually do not cross country lines with their phones as frequently as in Europe and Asia.
Jim

14

DarkScooterPie I am in the US and I use VoiceStream and my Nokia phones darn well do indeed have SIM cards.

15

How about things like the battery, face-plates, etc? These kind of things can be resold, and the phone itself tossed out.

16

A little of both. At least in our system the phone is logged as lost/stolen and while its a little tricky to fool the system into letting you get it back, it can be done.

Also, it depends upon the make/model and age of the phones as to whether or not they have SIM cards. From what I gather, they’re gradually being phased out in US phones. The components of the phones could be sold (Kind of funny to think that there might be “chop shops” for cell phones out there.), lord knows we have enough people calling in looking for parts for cell phones we no longer carry that there could be a thriving business in it, if one wanted to start one.

17

<Posting this for a friend.>

OK, let’s say I’m a “poor unsuspecting schmuck” as was mentioned earlier. In my case I called the Cell company (Sprint) and they said the phone was not stolen, but the past user had been disconnected for not paying his bill. Sprint refuses to reactivate the Phone for my use even though I have been a customer for three years. I only bought another phone because it was exactly like mine that I broke and have a couple hundred dollars in accessories for my model.

Since there are so many knowledgeable people on this post I wondered if the rep with Sprint I was talking to was right or if they just wanted to sell me a new phone. Since it’s not stolen I might just try to cannibalize the new phone to fix mine if there is no way to activate it. Any suggestions?

18

Well considering that sprint sells most of the phones at a loss I doubt they were trying to sell you a phone.

19

Sprint won’t activate the phone if there’s a past due amount owed by the previous owner. I should know, I used to work there. There are workarounds, but most of the employees don’t know how to use them and wouldn’t if they did, because if they got caught doing it, it’d cost them their job. (That’s not why I no longer work there, but I can assure you that’s the rep was being honest with you.) Sprint’s also not the only cell phone company to sell phones at a loss, most of the other cell phone companies do as well.