Thanks for the hint, Captain. :rolleyes:
Florence IS a translation of Firenze:
Updike, “Florence” is not a word with any meaning in English other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Italy), so it’s not really a translation of “Firenze” even if you can find it in some dictionaries. I think Chefguy’s distinction is valid.
The “translation” vs “different name” issue is probably why Côte d’Ivoire is having such a hard time getting outsiders to go along with their ruling:
If they had chosen a name which didn’t have a clear meaning in one of the world’s most widespread languages, or had been less confrontational about it, they might have been able to get some compliance with their request. [Personally, I like to say “Ivory Coast” out loud just to mess with 'em.]
And “Londres” is not a word with any meaning in French other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Great Britain) so it’s not really a translation of “London” even if you can find it some dictionaries. I think Chefguy’s distinction is stupid.
And you’re a fucking moron, but that’s just an opinion as well.
So riddle me this, Batman. What are the positive reasons for using “Torino” in place of “Turin”?
Good, we’re in agreement then.
To see an example in which Chefguy’s distinction makes real sense, let’s return to Côte d’Ivoire:
The name is just begging to be translated.
Now, the largest city and former official (and current economic) capital is Abidjan. In 1983 – roughly the time they started insisting on “Côte d’Ivoire” –
the smallish city of Yamoussoukro was made the official capital. If the government had said something like:
I’d be willing to bet that the BBC and others would be calling the country “Yamoussoukro” – a name that does not beg to be translated. [The BBC has stayed with Ivory Coast]. There might be some holdouts, but the new name would probably soon stick. It worked for Mali (formerly French Sudan) and Benin (formerly Dahomey).
Oh, and for any government officials out there in Côte d’Ivoire reading this thread:
IVORY COAST – IVORY COAST – IVORY COAST !!!
If the Ivorians were so concerned about the “injustices of the French colonial period”, why on earth did they name themselves in French? :dubious:
Only because I have been there, too, my friend. 
FTR, I also no longer correct anyone’s pronunciation of angst, Neanderthal, or Fahrvergnügen. 
Well, it’s right. In the fight against ignorance, the truth surely counts for something. Most people are not going to be exposed to the native words, and it somehow seems wrong to have roomfuls of Americans hanging around constantly saying something that is wrong.
Secondly, it averts misunderstandings. Tourists will appreciate knowing the local names for things. Reading foreign newspapers, etc. will be easier and more likely when ALL of the terminology isn’t so foreign. Business, science, and any enterprise that benefits from a standardized vocabulary will benefit. Most of us will come in to contact with a foreign country at some point, and it’s useful to be armed with all of the info we can have.
On a larger scale, it helps avoid some pretty big misunderstandings. For example, there is a lot of controversy as to Christopher Columbus’s origins, because he was called something different in every language. If we had known what his parents had called him, we’d know a little bit more about history.
Finally, it’s polite. Refusing to use a country’s preferred name is modern politicalese for “screw you, we don’t recognize your government”. You won’t find many people that call Burma “Myanmar” because most of us don’t recognize their regime as legit. It took us years to start calling the PRC “China”. To do the same to countries we don’t have a beef with seems ill-advised.
Nitpick: Warszawa.
Anyhow, I actually did not know that Kabul was pronounced closer to “Cobble” than “kah-bool.” My instinct, from speaking two languages fluently and another four or five with various degrees of proficiency, would tell me to pronounce it as “kah-BOOL” or “KAH-bool”. I would never had settled on “cobble,” but that’s perhaps because I only know Indo-European languages (and a Finno-Ugric one).
Now that I know the real pronuncation, I still don’t think I could bring myself to say because everyone, and I mean every single person I know, does pronounce it as kah-BOOL. That’s just the way it is. If I want to look like a pedantic ass, sure, I can pronounce it the right way. Then again, I could also pronounce Budapest as BOO-da-PESHT, Krakow as “KRAH-koof,” and so on…
I once had a manager who called me “Mwock” instead of Marc. I believe he was originally from New York and English was his native language but he just couldn’t pronounce Marc correctly. Just a few weeks ago a guy in my class told me they had Coffee “Skills” in New York. It wasn’t until he said it for the third time that I figured out those “Skills” he spoke of were actually Skittles candy.
I don’t expect every native English speaker to pronounce words the way I’m accustomed to so why would I expect it of foreigners and why would they expect it of me?
L Doe-Ray-Dough or L Da-Rah-Doe? I know which one to use in Texas and which one to use in Arkansas.
Prayg or Prawg? One for Arkansas and one for the rest of the United States.
Much ado about nothing, but then I guess we’re all entitled to our own silly little pet peeves.
Marc