Stop telling us to “listen” to Trump voters. We have heard enough

Trump voters have shown their violets sirefwdd foe the valuues of democracy, the well-being of their fellow humans, their rejection objective truth, and their oppressive resentment. Please stop telling us to “listen.” They have nothing worthwhile to say.

“Just as in 2016, I don’t need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again. I want them to have health insurance, decent paying jobs and security for their family. I do not want them to suffer, but I also refuse to spend any more time trying to understand and help the architects of my oppression.”

I think this all comes down to reconcilable vs. irreconcilable differences. The only way talk and dialogue helps is if the dispute can be bridged. If the two sides have views that are impossible to bridge, talk does not help, it actually can inflame the anger.

I’ve interacted with countless Trump supporters since four years ago and at a certain point hit a wall with most of them too.

When people are constantly indoctrinated by lies from their preferred sources of “news”, how can you possibly reconcile with them? Genuine political differences that are amenable to discussion and compromise are difference of opinion on how to deal with the fundamental common ground that is reality. When that fundamental common ground simply does not exist, when someone’s “facts” about the world do not correspond in any way to reality, a conciliatory approach seems extremely unlikely to be productive.

So I don’t think this is about reconciliation, it’s about preventing the country being overrun by a cult. This not a bona fide difference of opinion in how to deal with social issues, the problem is the constant indoctrination of this segment of the population, and there’s a strong feedback loop there. The more powerful the cult, the more empowered and convincing the machinery of indoctrination.

As Toby Ziegler said in another context, they will never “like” us or be amenable to a conciliatory approach so long as they believe in some utterly false reality promulgated by their cult’s machinery of indoctrination. That indoctrination process must be stopped, and in a free society with freedom of speech that will probably only happen by beating them. If the cult’s power and influence start to wane, they themselves may start to question the validity and veracity of the indoctrination. They’ll like us when we win.

Everything I know about politics, I learned from The West Wing.

I have no idea why you feel this way. Obama winning 2 presidential elections did nothing to increase the fondness for him in the hearts of Republicans, nor did any Republican victory make Democrats think “yeah, I like those winning Republicans.”

I posted the same article in another thread and opined there is no reconciliation to be had.

Mock them. Berate them. Castigate them. They deserve it all. These people have absolutely zero interest in honest dialogue and will ignore any and all evidence, no matter how clear (e.g. actual recordings of what Trump said).

We (liberals) have spent a huge amount of time trying to convince the other side. Literally decades. Conservatives have done nothing but race to the right at every opportunity.

These are bad people. (Yes, I said it…they are bad people.) They are not arguing about how to fix global warming, they are arguing it does not exist. They are not arguing about the best way to deal with a global pandemic. They are arguing it does not exist.

And so on…

There is no fixing any of of this because of these people. And as a result people are dying. LOTS of people are DYING. Not brown people somewhere else in the world…people right here.

Fuck Trumpers. Work to support like minded people. Don’t expend any energy on Trumpers any more except to mock them for fun.

And has attempting to work with Republicans for the good of the country been productive?

Obviously by “winning” I don’t just mean winning one (or even several) elections. It’s utterly astonishing that even one person voted for Trump, let alone 70 million. I mean the ultimate and decisive demise of the reality-denying cult that the Republican Party has now become. Fortunately, reality does sometimes kick in to out the lies - a policy of bullshitting people with alternative “facts” does not work in a pandemic. And demographic dynamics are on our side here, provided the cult does not succeed in simply disenfranchising people.

One does not “listen to” cult members who believe insane, fact denying garbage.

It’s like saying that we should listen to folks who think a spaceship will come and pick them up next year, and are prepared to kill themselves and others if this does not come true. We should “listen” to them to understand their point of view.

Their point of view is not open to discussion. It is literally insane. It has no factual or truthful components. You cannot change the mind of a cult member using logical discussion or “listening” They are beyond that.

As usual I will warn against reliance upon that.

Since everyone in the thread seems to be on the same page about how it’s pointless to try to come to any kind of understanding of what makes people vote for Trump, two questions: 1. how come so many of them voted for Obama? and 2. do you want them to vote for Democrats again?

I’ve explained something to a Trump person and included actual factual, sourced reporting from the NYT, and got laughed at and rebutted with a video from Mark Levin’s show, with a RW talking head giving his opinion about the issue.

Some people aren’t able to think or evaluate reality. Why should I listen to a stupid person say stupid things that they only believe because they’re too dumb/weak/ignorant/lazy to question their position?

I’d love to see a cite that shows how many of them voted for Obama. I mean, I’ve heard this said many times over but have never seen any evidence - just the assertion.

Can you clarify this line please??

Why? I’ve posted summaries of studies before, and nobody’s opinion about anything changed What will be the difference if it was a million or ten million or fifty million?

I think it might have been “contempt for”

In 2016 the more gullible voters might think that Trump had a solution for healthcare, could get Mexico to pay for the wall, and could bring manufacturing jobs back. In 2020 he did none of those things, and has a record of failure and lies.
Some people are not good at critical thinking. Some people are stupid. Some people are bigots who love to have their bigotry made acceptable.
Try showing a flat earther evidence that they are wrong. Works just as well.

It’s one thing to say you want to understand phenomenon.

It’s another thing to keep telling us to “listen.” We’ve had enough listening, enough interviews, enough think pieces, enough profiles. They have. Nothing. To. Say. Except delusional gibberish. Listening to them will get us nowhere and subject is only to their constant ignorance and bigotry. As the author of the article linked in the OP says “stop telling me to listen to my oppressor.” These are the people hurting me. I don’t need to hear one more word from their vicious stupid mouths any more. I don’t want to read a single article describing them or their circumstances with sympathy.

Fuck Trump voters. They need to “listen” to the sane people. I’ve listend to those dumb motherfucking Trump voters. Fucking imaginary conspiratorial bullshit that drives them… Fuck that. They need to listen to the sane people. THEY need to fucking listen. And pull their heads out of their asses.

I’ll count that as two for “I don’t know why they vote the way they do” and “yes, I want them to vote differently.”

In my opinion, that is the tension that is sometimes being inartfully hinted at when people say things like “listen.”