And, on my way out? Defending yourself in a pit thread is a bannable offense?
I honestly don’t get it.
I attempted to start a thread about something which I see as a direct threat to the lives of an entire generation, and I’ve been called a handfull of insults which imply I can’t think. Again… responding to these in kind will get me banned?
I’m more than willing to listen to any of the regulars advice, and don’t get me wrong, I honestly appreciate it, but I don’t understand what I’ve done wrong.
Bu…bu…but there are other people who are also interested in your POV now that you’ve gotten the evidence you sought. (Though I agree, that information was available to you at any time, with many links to the bills themselves and certainly enough information to look it up, i.e. S 89, HR 163)
But anyway, so what’s your opinion now? “It’ll never happen” is not a credible argument. “It’ll never happen” would only be a valid response if the draft was prohibited by an Amendment to the Constitution, or if the Supreme Court reversed its opinion and held the draft to be unconstitutional on its face.
I think it is entirely short-sighted to not look at the records of the sponsoring representatives of these bills and to find out their motivations for presenting a bill of this sort. However, this thread is entirely too muddled with insults, half-truths and BS. A GD thread would be very interesting.
Alright, more honest criticism.
First off, calling established SDMB posters “murderers” isn’t a good start. That was completely out of line and belligerent.
Secondly, look at the thread from the beginning. You have a lowish post-count, and the posting public here has very little info on what your political tendencies are. So you post an OP, guns-a-blazing. Fine. But then all of a sudden, various statements you make turn out to be completely false (Bush, neo cons, etc.). The first thing that people are going to assume is, “Troll”.
Why? Because we get extremely tired of bait-and-switch arguments. Intentional or not, your OP appears to be bait trying to get conservatives to argue against you, and for a draft. But, lo and behold, the bill is sponsored by Democrats. Do you see what I’m trying to say there? (I’ll rephrase if you need me to.)
Thirdly, your OP’s links are to pathetic non-US news sources, or sites that don’t actually have anything to do with the proposed bills (your second link goes to some PAC, but there’s nothing on their front page linking to anything re: a draft).
Your posts then waver back and forth, you appear to completely backtrack on several issues, ignore issues, etc.
We probably got off on the wrong foot. Fine. But your behavior has been extremely volatile and inflammatory. Again, your comment to Airman Doors was COMPLETELY out of line, and there’s very little recovery within a thread from that without some serious mea culpa.
I didn’t call any specific poster a muderer. But you will be hard pressed to offer a definition of ‘solider’ that ignores the fact that their job is to kill people. This is simply a definition. We give them weapons, they go kill people. If the war is a war that is illegal by international law, the killings they commit are thus murders.
A killer is not something different because you give him a uniform. If soldiers don’t like the fact that their job makes them killers and sometimes murderers, they shouldn’t be soldiers. If they don’t want to take responsibility for the Mai Lais and Wounded Knees in their history they shouldn’t be so swift to trumpet esprit de corps.
And simply for the record, call me a coward, or suggest that I’m somehow substandard for not jumping into a foxhole and shooting at whoever the bosses tell me to and I’ll defend myself.
And yes, I regret not simply posting the two bills, but this was a call to action against the bills and not a call to debate about who is responsible for the bills.
So yes, I can ignore issues that aren’t at issue. If in passing I’d mentioned that GWB has purple hair I’d be wrong but it would be outside of the topic and I could safely ignore it, as should anybody else.
glad that yet another person sees fit to flame me…
and yes, I’m sorry for flaming back, el cid was much more level headed than I.
but I’m tired of this, I tried to bring something to people’s attention. That the draft was before congress and that it had to be opposed. That our childrens’ lives were in danger.
evidenlty this was the wrong place to say such a thing. Or to not want to kill for god king and country. Or whatever.
So, please, whatever mod finds this, delete the thread and my account along with it. I’m tired.
In my humble opinion, and speaking only as a member, that’s the best thing you could have said. It’s all about perceptions here; your 20-odd Pit posts (in this thread, mind you) are skewing your “favorability factor,” which is essential to SDMB longevity. Besides, your full head of steam was very evident in your replies.
My dog in this fight: it’s an important and timely subject.
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As a friendly acquaintance and former man-at-arms, please permit me to mix metaphors: If you’re going to drop the gauntlet, perhaps you should stay out of the kitchen. Munch: Forget the OP, my trick knee says the draft is coming. Now’s the time to stop it, before it’s even a twinkle in some Congressman’s eye. To the draft-doubters out there: To me, a conscription bill is the Democrats’ election-year Ace in the Hole.
With this month’s massive troop rotation, we’re running short on qualified troops. And while new conscript troops are required to support our operations in Iraq (a war effort begun by Mr. Bush) the President would be crazy to call for a draft.
But what if his opponents, couching it as doing the right thing, pressed for conscription? After all, the President lied and got us into a war from which we can’t just pull out, and we need a proper troop presence to ensure precious democracy takes root. Further, this would be seen as proof positive that some Democrats are no longer “standing in the way of progress.”
What effect do you suppose conscription will have on said election, especially if Mr. Kerry comes out against it?
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I’m more than a little confused by this. This, whatever, I can’t even call him a man, doesn’t understand the difference between war and murder, and chose to equate my service (and yours) to an atrocity. If you think I should just sit down and take that, well, I’m sorry, but there’s no fucking way.
This is the second time (at least) where I have been referred to as a murderer. I simply will not stand for that. Period.
FinnAgain, fuckwit you are, and fuckwit you remain.
“A killer isn’t different because you give him a uniform.” :rolleyes:
Go back to Kindergarten, kid…you’re bothering the grownups.
Doors, you are showing remarkable restraint in dealing with this reject. In case no-one has said it to you lately, “Thank You for defending this country, and my way of life.”
Back to our regularly-scheduled fuckwit… (psst!..FinnAgain …that’s your cue!)
Here is one:
solider - Of definite shape and volume; not liquid or gaseous.
Firm or compact in substance.
Wait, did you mean Soldier? How about this?
soldier 1. One who serves in an army.
2. An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.
3. An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization.
Hmm. Doesn’t say murderer or kill people anywhere.
The job of a soldier isn’t to kill people. Most of the men and women serving in the armed forces never even point a gun at anyone during their career. A very close family member was killed by terrorist while on a peace keeping mission. His job was to help bring peace to a nation and get them to try to quit killing each other. Instead, they killed him. And this makes him a murder how?
Oh, take it easy, Airman. Don’t waste your time trying to defend your honor - as if someone such as this can actually impunge it. You know your own worth. Save your anger for those who are actually shooting at you.
Eh, I don’t know - sometimes “it’ll never happen” is perfectly valid and reasonable.
For example, as I type this, I hear the phone ringing…
It COULD be Charlize Theron calling me to say that her Oscar-winning night wouldn’t be complete unless she could come over and give me fellatio while I drink beer and watch basketball.
Airman Doors: You know I respect you. I don’t always agree with you, but I truly appreciate your point of view.
With regard to the United States military, I find it impossible to conceive of ever serving again. Personally, if I were called up (and it’s still a possibility, despite my age), I would be forced to object. A Marine Corps objector. What a disgrace, right?
Inasmuch as the OP called you (and me) a murderer by making a reference to My Lai and death squads, you similarly posited he’d commit treasonous acts should he ever be drafted. The last thing we need is a professional force destroyed from within by the likes of you. Your words. They were definitely more measured and nowhere near as inflammatory as his, but they certainly packed a punch.
I don’t know your heart, but I do know you are an honorable man. I’ll never call you a murderer, or pass judgment on your service to the United States. A man’s obligation to his country is his own.
But knowing what I know now, if I were forced to kill for the US government, I’d consider myself a murderer. Will you consider me a coward, or worse, a traitor, if I refuse to serve?
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Ignoring quasi-legal “police actions” like Iraq, is it ipso facto wrong to be a murderer against the likes of Hitler or Stalin? To die in a fight for freedom is most honorable. To give your life in the service of your country during a righteous fight, even to be a “murderer” during such is an opportunity, not a worst case scenario.
Nor should you. This guy is an idiot, pure and simple, and has already run squalling like the little fucktard he is from this thread. No surprise, really (and for the record, I don’t like Bush one bit but I don’t need assheads like this on my side).
Presuming you’re an American, Ilsie, I’ll say this: I am, and have always been, willing to give my life in your defense. I can say throughout your entire existence on this planet, I have never once wavered on that. But if I, despite knowledge to the contrary, pretend some foreign chap is threatening your life and I kill him as a consequence, I’ll consider myself a murderer.
Oh, certainly. I was simply making the point that to die for the freedom of others was honorable; that fighting for the good of the people did not make you a murderer ipso facto. I wasn’t being hostile, brother. Chill.
That’s some heavy shit, Reeder. Beyond what you’ve mentioned, here are two noteworthy items:
Attain and appoint Registrars in 85% of the Nation’s high schools.
Enhance the system which guarantees that each conscientious objector is properly classified, placed, and monitored.
PS to Ilsa, no hostility perceived.
