I think **Elysian **largely nailed it. There’s a saying that people want someone who will say or do out loud in public what they’ve been thinking all along deep down inside. For over 60 million Americans, Trump was that long-awaited breath of fresh air, that “Finally!” moment, that hero that they had been envisioning who would scratch all their political itches.
While others consider it a rude wet fart on a crowded elevator, stuck between floors. But hey, at least the offender feels a sense of relief at being able to finally let it out.
“You know, a moron”.[sub]Blazing Saddles Reference[/sub]
Well, that’s what politics is - two sides trying to win fart rights in the elevator. Winner gets to force the opposing side to endure it for 4, 8, or 12 more floors.
Meanwhile, the independents/non-partisans are just wrinkling their nose more and more at the stench and hoping the door opens soon.
Shaun either re-uploaded it or managed to convince the Great Old YouTube One to fuck off. Here’s the direct link (which is more better, since his other videos are also cool and good).
Up to a point, I would agree with you. I don’t expect politicians to be saints, or above reproach. There is a point, however, (for me at least) that I can’t hold my nose to advance the issues I care about. Trump is the perfect example of that point. Even if I agreed with everything he was accomplishing, I could not support him. He’s just too vile. A normal “asshole who endorses all of my views,” sure I could probably do that. Trump is way past “asshole.”
“Every politician has done some questionable things. I don’t think he’s done anything illegal. I don’t care what he says in public, or on twitter, or on the campaign trail. I care about what policies get enacted.”
Here’s my take on it at the moment.
I blame the internet. And viral media.
The US has a long history of anti-government extremism, with rural roots. The US government is heavily involved in industries such as farming, ranching and mining. They are highly regulated and also the beneficiaries of a lot of government largesse. The federal government outright owns most of the land in the Western US. Most small farmers rely on heavily on federal loans, crop subsidies and other federal programs.
And the feeling is that US government places greater weight on having an inexpensive and consistent food supply for the nation than it does on the individual farmer or rancher. This has come to a head at various times in history, like the farm foreclosure crisis In the 1970’s.
Remember the Hunger Games? Did you know that some rural right-wingers identified strongly with that movie? They see themselves as the simple hard-workers controlled and oppressed by the frivolous and cruel elites.
Some of these people became radicalized. The trope of the rugged individualists battling the G-Men (No Revenooers!) is at least a century old. These are people that want to be left to live and die by their own resources, or so they think. They feel that the economic system that evolved in this country has effectively enslaved them, first by tipping the scales against them until it was impossible for them to survive on their own - then by giving them cheap loans and food stamps and other aid instead of “fixing the system” —- this allowing them to survive, but only on “their” terms. These people occasionally made the news, Weaver and Waco, but were mostly contained and out of public view.
Then we all became connected. We got the internet and viral media.
This existential dissatisfaction, the certainty that your problems and hardships exist only because the fucked up system screwed you, spread like wildfire.
It spread beyond the radical farmers and militiamen. It spread beyond the anti/immigrant posses on our Southern border.
It appealed to blue collar workers whose jobs moved overseas.
It appealed to professionals who feel passed over in favor of women and minorities.
It appealed to entire communities wrecked by a drug epidemic caused by unchecked corporate greed.
It appealed to guys that can’t get a girlfriend.
It appealed to everyone that failed, in one way or another, to adapt to the modern world
. So this existential feeling of victimhood has exploded through the internet and came together as the Alt-Right.
All these people believe that the government and the system has completely screwed them. The specific beefs might be different but they believe government works against their interest, and in the interest of some shadowy global power structure.
And since these oppressive powers are never really defined — well, there’s the fodder for your ten thousand conspiracy theories.
And it’s no mystery why these people love Trump. It was inevitable. His policies addressed their major gripes— the emphasis on deregulation—the tax cut- the immigration crackdown.
Some important things to remember.
These people care nothing about foreign policy.
Zero. Zip. Nada
Trump could give Russia our nuclear codes and they wouldn’t care. He could abruptly pull all our forces out of South Korea, causing the wholesale massacre of millions and they wouldn’t care.
Or worse, they just wouldn’t believe it. Because Trump, from Day 1, has made it his prime mission to erode all confidence in our press, law enforcement,and governance.
No matter how bad the current impeachment issues get, NOTHING, and I mean absolutely NOTHING -Trump can do will move the needle for his supporters.
They DO recognize that the rural communities get massive government aid, more than urban areas.
And they HATE it. They hate it that they need it. They hate it that they have to rely on government loans and assistance. Because they feel they are the victim of a massive government plot to keep them dependent. They as feel if the government hadn’t intervened so heavily in their lives they wouldn’t need this help.
This is what Democrats aren’t understanding. They just don’t get why people that desperately need healthcare and education and subsidized loans are so against those programs. They don’t want things given to them.
They want to roll everything back to the world that they remember, that brief time in history when family farms and ranches thrived, the middle class was in its ascendancy and it was virtually guaranteed that your children would do better than you.
So the different between me and them is that I understand that strong government and high taxes and government programs were the driving force behind upward mobility and “American Greatness”. The things they hate are the things that made America great.
Instead, they blame it on minorities and immigration and celebrities and liberals and globalism. And there’s a great big media machine that feeds and amplifies this belief.
The QANON conspiracy theory raises this to mythology.
And, remember -these people feel about liberals the way people in the Hunger Games District 12 felt about the citizens of Paneem. This is why they LOVE Trump’s hate-tweeting.
That’s my analysis and I don’t know what the answer is. I don’t like that such a large portion of our country has fallen for the kind of insidious disinformation that’s out there.
And I don’t like it that a con man has managed to tap into this as perfectly as he has.
I don’t know what the answer is,but what we are doing now isn’t working.
What’s with the quotes? They’re confusing as hell. Are these your own opinions, or are you being held hostage and told to read the provided statements?
I’m hoping they signify what a straight, cisgendered white male Trump Supporter would say. They are not all my personal feelings, no, but as a straight cisgendered white male who knows other cisgendered white males who DO support Trump, this is what they say.
One of them is mine - I DON’T care what the President says on the campaign trail, or twitter, or interviews or wherever.
(to avoid any questions that may come my way, no matter what example from Twitter that anyone sites - no, I don’t care)
There can be 1000 threads asking “Why?” or stating “I don’t understand” and the answer will be the same.
“I DON’T CARE”
“But what about the Kurds?” I don’t care.
“Asylum seekers?” Don’t care
“Poor people?” Don’t care
“Ukraine?” Don’t care
“Farmers?” China is hurting worse
And on and on and on and on. THEY DON’T CARE. Say it outloud until you understand.
If some people find it hard to believe that someone doesn’t care, then just get over it. You are not going to shame them into caring.
Ask the urban areas how they feel about multiculturalism. There may be crime in bad areas but in urban areas (and universities and elite corporations) you have people of various races, genders, sexualities, religions, nationalities, etc all living together fairly well.
Its the areas where there is no diversity that diversity is scary. Areas where there already is diversity like urban areas, colleges/universities, etc are all pretty open to multiculturalism since they’ve seen it first hand.
I saw a study where areas that Romney won were slightly less likely to support Trump when the white population was 0-90%. Once it got to 90%, people started liking Trump more, and areas that are 100% white preferred Trump over Romney by several points.
Point being, the people most afraid of multiculturalism are people who have never been exposed to it except in scare tactics by the media.
Oh whoops, yeah, use that instead. I searched google for “Shaun Great Replacement” or something and since only the mirror popped up I assumed it had stayed down. Quite a few vids criticizing right wing figures have been flagged down permanently like Big Joel’s vid on Sarkeesian and Carlgon (which, hilariously, even Carl objected to lol)
Well, this is probably where we part company, since I’m not sure either of us has much left to say to each other: I have no interest in viewing that show of hands as mere pandering instead of bland sincerity, and I see their position as open borders; and if you can shrug that hard upon seeing those hands shoot up, then maybe there just doesn’t happen to be any common ground to start from.
I also don’t understand some of these things, despite the explanation provided. I find it jaw dropping that right wingers would identify with the district 12 people from Hunger Games. From my perspective it seems that the authoritarian cis white men who support Trump would see President Snow as a kindred spirit to Trump.*. I suppose it’s such a different way of thinking that I really do need it explained step by step. Here are some further examples from your post and how I react to the issues.
Regarding blue collar workers whose job moved overseas, I would blame consumers who wanted cheap foreign goods over American made. This trend, however, started with these same folks when places like Walmart became successful.
Regarding the guys who can’t get a girlfriend, if that was me I’d examine myself to see where my failings lie. I wouldn’t blame the guy who does have a girlfriend.
Regarding rural communities ravaged by the opioid epidemic I would blame doctors who run pill mills, not the black people of inner city Baltimore or Chicago.
Regarding the professional passed over in favor of a woman or a minority I wouldn’t blame those individuals. I’d look at my own work history and see if there are ways I could up my game.
In other words, I just don’t get the people who think differently. I get that they do think differently, I just don’t understand why.
*. As an aside I tend to think that if the right wingers get their way in the long run, we would end up with something like Hunger Games. For the liberal policies I see the long term outcome being more like the Federation from Star Trek TNG.
Well, the Republican Party is diverse, in a certain sense - not as much as the Democrats, but still diverse. You have rich millionaires or billionaires who support Trump, who who would fall into the “support President Snow” category. Then you have many poor, rural, country folk (the type written about in Hillbilly Elegy or elsewhere) who also support Trump. Those would be the “District 12” Trump voters.
Just as food for thought: According to exit polls, President Trump actually won the middle two income brackets ($50k-$100k & $100k-$200k). He lost the two poorer than that, and lost and tied the two richer than that. It’s only because he was the choice of the middle class that he’s President now.
Simple. In 2016, Trump was the best candidate for the job. That’s why we voted for him.
Now, I am reasonably new to this board, four months or so. but in that time, I have seen the massive bias to the left of the majority of the posters, so I realize that won’t be a very popular point of view. But it is a critical one.
Well, if you consider “the job” to be Pissing Off the Liberals, then I’d have to say you’re exactly right, and from that point of view I don’t think you’ll ever regret your choice.
Using a more traditional definition of what a President’s job is supposed to be though, then I’d have to disagree with you.
What, in your view, were his notable qualifications?
I came up with this theory while reading The Terrorist Next Door by Daniel Levitas, which discusses the evolution of the modern radical right and its roots in the radical farm and Posse Comitatas movements.
The fact the the folks that are center in this movement, like the Bundy ranching family, feel the way they do is no mystery. And their grievances are real and some of them have been left behind by the new global world economy through no fault of their own. Like I said, it’s an all consuming existential dissatisfaction.
But what is more puzzling is the way these ideas have spread and morphed. And the identity of the enemy, the political industrial government fat cat elite globalist liberals, morphs to fit the specific ideology of each of the new groups. And when these people group together they reinforce each other’s beliefs that they are the wronged party.
And, in some ways, I share their frustration. Take health care policy. I want the system to be fixed so a specialist doctor offices visit DOESN’T cost $1200 (my latest medical bill) and a month of a vital medicine DOESN’T cost $5000. But no one talks about anything other than who’s going to pick up the tab. And that’s not where the answer is.
FlikTheBlue, one comment. A little bit of a hijack, but I keep coming back to your sentence “Regarding rural communities ravaged by the opioid epidemic, I would blame the doctors that run the pill mills, not the black people of inner city Baltimore or Chicago?
I’d go deeper than the doctors that ran the pill mills, I would blame the manufacturers and distributors and pharm executives that sold dangerous lies.
But this epidemic has been of interest to me for a long time and I’ve read a lot about it and I’ve NEVER heard anyone blame inner city residents for it. What’s the theory?
If anything, this was a “white people problem” and there was bias that lessened the impact on people of color on at least two fronts. One, doctors were less likely to prescribe opiates to black patients because of subconscious bias. Two, the young Mexican heroin dealers that served the smaller large cities (places like Salt Lake City, Columbus and Charlotte) were overtly biased and refused to sell to blacks.