Straight Dope 1/20/2023: Have baby boomers wrecked the planet?

This is not quite so. In the absence of large unifying events, defining people by their generation is pretty inaccurate. Even younger people of the same age have different interests and values, and these further move apart as the years increase. This is before considering environment, childhood values, country of origin and residence, resources and aptitude. Taking a ten or twenty-five year tranche of people and expecting them to share similar worldviews is a big leap, and a lazy one.

Many people here understand this. Still, as an inaccurate shorthand it is one way to refer to a group of people. It is resented because the whole concept is inaccurate, and further laziness leads to ingrained stereotypes which are both inaccurate and frustrating for many, especially younger people typecast before they really have their voices heard or the power to make change. The natural tendencies of all people towards egotism come Into play, as do the biases where one sees one’s own actions and those of contemporaries in a more positive light. Older generations have always seen younger ones as some combination of lazy, arrogant, aloof, disrespectful and confusing. This persists though parenting has also changed a great deal in fifty years (or your preferred time period).

However, the term “Generation X” was specifically coined by Douglas Coupland in a book of the same name. His meaning was quite a bit more restrictive than its current usage. It was not merely a term coined by Boomers to emphasize their considerable braggadocio^, but coined by members who originally had McJobs and very different values, including more style (and cooler slang), more idealism and environmental consciousness than materialism (and sometimes limited choice in the matter - and so what has really changed between Generations X and Z excepting technology, though no one will admit this?). Who cares if Boomers have their own edition of Trivial Pursuit? Is it true children are always more like their grandparents or great-grandparents than their parents; or is it explosive to even compare “families” no longer “nuclear” nor so narrowly defined?

But treating real concerns and climate realities as trivial is a step too far. Every generation faces the problems and unforeseen consequences of their predecessors. Housing in the 1970s was tough for many when mortgage rates were 20%. This generation will muddle through as we all did. They’ll find answers. These will be imperfect and they will also pass problems along - it’s what we are best at. We are pretty good at solving them, very good at shifting responsibility and getting better at ignoring them, which is a mixed blessing at best.

^ Not you, of course, enlightened Boomer. I explained generational constructs are flawed. Just the ones shooting off their mouths. :wink:

Douglas Coupland did not coin or define the term “Generation X”. This was the work of other historians and sociologists (mainly boomers, some earlier). These writers wanted to talk about the difference between Boomers and the generation who followed them, but this generation stubbornly refused to give itself a catchy self-defining nickname. Thus they were assigned the moniker “X”.

Coupland’s book popularized the term. As a member of that generation he was the first to note how it actually looked from the inside, and it most certainly was not anything about being cooler, more idealistic, and definitely not more environmentally consciousness. Rather it was nihilism and irony and ennui born out of the disillusionment of growing up in the Reagan years, observing the hypocrisy of an elder generation of sellout hippies who became capitalists (who annoyingly and continuously kept pretending that they were the passionate, earnest idealists, and criticized the following generation for not being the same).

Read the book; you will see. Coupland didn’t mean anything at all. He brought to life some characters from his age group, introduced some of their ways of seeing things, and all of those insights were nearly immediately washed out by Boomers selectively using parts of it to tell themselves a story of “kids these days don’t care like we did”. And by the way, Millennials? Same thing. Coined by Boomer authors hung up on generational astrology, again seized upon as a popular epithet to describe the new and different ways that “kids these days” weren’t as awesome as Boomers.

It’s very telling that even though Millennials are crossing 40, they’re still the target of the “kids these days” trope. And what demographic is old enough to see 40-year-olds as “kids”? Yep, you guessed it. Boomers.

This is just tin-eared boomer guff. And note here, again, that in spite of all protests against the unfair generational categories, it relentlessly creeps in wherever there’s a need for elders to dismiss the concerns of the younger - “don’t worry, you’ll figure it out just like we did.” The environment of security and plenty that fostered this mindset has been dramatically eroded since Boomers made their bones in decades past, and they Do. Not. Get. This.

Imagine how absurd it would seem to look at a young parent in 1931 facing the great Depression, or in 1941 facing WW2, and pronouncing from your throne of plenty “Don’t worry; we’ve all had challenges; you’ll make it through.” It’s a parody to see someone look at a world in environmental crisis and resurgent fascism, in which American democracy is losing its power as a stabilizing force both at home and abroad, and hearing someone say “remember when interest rates were high? This is like that. Plus you have iPhones now.”

So, again: Boomers invented this label for themselves, and they were/are fine with the generalization as long as it’s positive, and then it’s unfair and inaccurate. The negative backlash against Boomers is almost wholly a response to their self-adoring PR that never seems to end. Again I refer you to Cecil’s OP as a shining specimen of that genre.

I don’t think that’s right, in the sense that vast generalizations often have a nugget of truth in them. I’m a baby boomer, but most of my friends are younger. My Gen X friends have complained of the ennui of their generation. I think there’s a nugget of truth there. But Millennials? They care a lot. They care about social justice. They care about consent. (Soooo much more than we boomers did.) They care about boundaries between home and work. Their cares (in the vast amorphous way you can assign “cares” to a generation) aren’t the same as what the baby boomers cared about at the same age, but they are real, and important, and driving change in the US in a good direction. And they gripe about boomers because boomers no longer care, and are fighting those changes.

My statement wasn’t about whether Millennials do or don’t care. It was about both GenX and Millennial being labels invented by Boomers and instrumentalized as criticism of following generations, the #1 critique being “kids these days aren’t engaged and industrious like we were.”

Do Millennials actually care? No comment, it’s out of scope for this post. I do know that Boomers love labeling those generations as lazy, unserious spendthrifts who squander their time thinking about pronouns and wasting money on Starbucks and avocado toast. That’s the (unfair) critique I was speaking to.

That’s fair. Except… I’ve seen a lot of news articles denouncing the bad rap Millenials get, and I can’t recall ever hearing anyone actually SAY those things about Millenials. Except by Millenials, speaking ironincally.

I don’t think those labels were invented by and used by “Boomers”, I think they were invented by bored journalists who wanted something to write about.

Speaking of generations and large unifying events, I wonder what the covid kids will grow up to be like, as a generation and all that.

I did not say that newer generations would “figure things out” and condescendingly dismiss their concerns. I said they would “muddle through”. This implies they will have to deal with consequences and crises as best they can. They will handle some of them well and some of them less so. This includes both the promise and potential and very considerable limits of technology.

Before the Boomers there was the Greatest Generation. The history of self aggrandizing terms is longer than you say. But they had more to back it up.

If you read Coupland’s book, it is about ennui and irony, but also about preferring experiences to material flotsam. The concerns it raises transcend the generation in the title.

You’re in different circles than me, then. I had an older executive leader colleague who never shut up about how Millennials don’t want to work, and who actually quit her job after thirty years in part because she couldn’t deal with Millennials and Gen Z. She decried the laziness of younger generations while ignoring the fact she made the highest salary of anyone in the agency, but somehow minimum wage workers taking night shifts while understaffed in an emergency shelter are slacking because they’re looking for either more support or other jobs.

Earlier this week I had a conversation with a Gen X friend whose argument amounted to “Millennials are buying luxury items instead of building families.” We explained to him that we, pretty successful and privileged by Millennial standards, spend $36,000 a year on childcare and health care combined. That’s before rent, groceries, utilities, car insurance, student loans, retirement contributions, or “luxury” items. We can afford one kid.

When my husband quit his job as a clinical psychologist to start his own practice, in part because he was overworked, it was “Millennials these days don’t want to work.” Seriously, he got lectured for starting his own (wildly successful) business.

I’ll tell you one thing that is true about Millennials. A lot of us were latchkey kids. A lot of us remember long nights home alone where we dealt with our loneliness by stuffing our faces with junk food or watching comfort TV or anything just to face down the night. A lot of us don’t want to put our kids through that.

So yeah, we want more work-life balance. Heaven forfend.

Strauss-Howe generational theory

Strauss & Howe are of course boomers themselves. They coined “Millennial”. They were not the first to mention the phrase “Generation X” but AFAIK they were the first to develop a full academic treatment of it.

And note again that their intent wasn’t to dump on other generations. They were really just developing a self-flattering theory of generational chauvinism that happened to work beautifully as a framework of critiquing younger generations, and was seized upon as such by the general public.

So yeah, boomers invented generational astrology, and they have to live with it now.

Weren’t the boomers referred to as a generation when they were still kids?

Huh. Okay, we clearly run in different circles.

I mostly work with younger people, because I’m old. Granted, my employer gets to select the workers, but I’ve never heard anything like a complaint about younger workers, as a class. And I’m personally delighted that they tend to value work-life balance because that’s forced my employer to care, and that’s a huge benefit to me (because SURPRISE i, also, value work-life balance). But, you know, the kids these days do the work, care about it, try to do it well… What the fuck more can you ask for?

Yes, it’s kinda funny because that same Gen Xer deriding Millennials was also complaining about his organization not paying workers enough or being mindful of their time.

I am grateful the overall work culture at my organization is “we don’t care where or when you do your work as long as it gets done” but as part of Admin with quasi-Executive status, I recognize not everyone at my agency has that luxury, and I push all the time for improvement for workers that have less freedom and flexibility. We’ve talked about ways to better compensate employees and I know our CEO is mulling over the four day work week. We’ve recently had a massive cultural shift at the agency where many veterans have left and those younger staff remaining have been promoted to leadership positions (including me), essentially we are a new generation taking the helm of the organization, and I see how that has changed the culture of work.

I think it’s great. It’s not like we’re less productive. But we have more time for self care such as exercise, sleep and nutrition, more flexibility around taking care of our children (which IMO is critical at a progressive agency that supports and employs mostly women), and the opportunity to address chronic physical and mental health needs when necessary. All around good things, IMO.

I’m not really seeing the strong distinction you’re making between the two phrases.

That was not, so far as I’m aware, a self-applied label. Going by Wikipedia, it was a phrase used in a speech in 1953 by Gen. James van Fleet (b. 1895) to describe the men under his command, then popularized in the '90s by Tom Brokaw (b. 1940) in his book of the same name.

Yet “make it through” they did.

Google nGrams shows both “baby boom” and “baby boomer” being used in the early 30’s. I really don’t think the boomers invented the name, or even the idea that they were a “generation”.

Google Ngram Viewer

Did they? Did the Jewish population of Poland “make it through?” How much of Nanking “made it through?” Or Hiroshima? Or Dresden?

More than 80 million people didn’t “make it through” WWII.

I wasn’t talking about who invented the term “Baby Boomer,” though, I was refuting the suggestion that “Greatest Generation,” was a self-applied label.

I don’t think any of the labels are self-applied. :person_shrugging:

Capitalism absorbs, commercializes and neutralizes criticism and threats.

We’ve outsourced tackling climate change to private commercial interests ( outsourced the profits, at least - while still socializing a large portion on the costs) who have taken the approach that climate change something we can spend, innovate and produce our way out of. We are urged to save the planet by buying stuff….energy efficient light bulbs and appliance, electric vehicles, solar panels, plant based fast food and dish detergent that can clean oil off baby birds. The companies that produce these items have monetized clean energy and saving the planet and incorporated them into their brand.

I’m not saying that energy efficient and green products are not good or that they haven’t had any positive environmental impact. I’m just saying they’ve become profit centers in an economic system that is based around getting people to consume and accumulate as much stuff as possible in order to fuel the engines that provide the prosperity that Cecil describes in the article. We may have more energy-efficient technologies for our cars and homes, but all too often we use those an an excuse to consume more, to buy bigger homes, to drive more in bigger cars, to make more people.

There is plenty that we as a society could do to minimize our energy consumption. As one example, work from home, for people whose jobs allow for it, is hugely energy efficient. There are major energy savings in not commuting daily and energy savings in not occupying two spaces ( home and office,both which need to be furnished and maintained). Yet the commercial sector is pushing hard for an end to work from home, and I believe that’s largely because of the negative economic impact on industries such as commercial real estate, fast food, office supplies and furnishings, and even construction and building supplies.

That makes it a non-starter, just like the idea of localizing supply chains, shifting towards larger multi-generational households and urging everyone to consume ten percent less are non-starters, because they involve a reduction in consumption.

We have an economy that is based on increasing levels of consumption and unsustainable levels of growth, it’s become a classic pyramid scheme with most of the benefits going to those who have been around the longest — the Boomer generation. I don’t blame the younger generations for being pissed off.

Credit to @Swords_to_Plowshares for this

@Ann_Hedonia for the win.

Which is more efficient, though? Heating/cooling one office for 50 people, or heating/cooling 50 individual homes?